For anyone interested in Blu-ray or HD-DVD - MUST READ

[neuroking]

This is ridiculous:
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/ati_nvidia_hdcp_support/

To sum it up - no custom built PCs will be able to play Blu-Ray ro HD-DVDs at native resolution. Period. You can bet this will result in a couple class action suits.

[neuroking]

I hate responding to my own posts, but I wanted to point out a Slashdot user comment:

As a result, pirated content (with the protection removed and recoded in h.264) will run at a higher resolution on your PC than content you bought.

Anybody want to guess the effect of that on sales?

[Ioman]

Double poster! See my response here right above your post: http://forums.designtechnica.com/showthread.php?t=9985&page=2

IMO FiringSquad is publishing an article without knowing the truth. Is there a Blu-ray player/recorder out for the PC now? No. The technology is there for the videocard manufacturers, but without a final product, there is no way for it to be implemented.

IMO The home theater side will support HDCP but the PC side won't. Ever wonder why you can't just plug your laptop into a television and play a DVD movie off of it that way? Because of copyright protection. Of course that doesn't happen when you plug a monitor into your laptop though right? The problem will be when you try to plug your HTPC into your 30" LCD or 42" plasma, then you will see the incompatibilities.

But to say a PC with an internal Blu-ray drive hooked up to a monitor won't support Blu-ray is completely bogus. Besides, have you ever seen a PC monitor that supports 1080P? We are like a year off for that at the very least. Even Gateway's new 21" monitor with HDCP support maxes out at 1080i: http://www.gateway.com/programs/lcd/specs.shtml?cmpid=index*HDLCD21W_overview*tab

My point is that PC and component manufacturers are never in sync with each other when it comes to new standards versus the home theater side. You have the PC maker, the video card maker, the blu-ray player maker, the monitor maker all trying to make their products compatible. On the home theater side, you have the TV manufacturer and the Blu-Ray maker - thats all you need, its pretty cut and dry.

FiringSquad needs to stick with gaming, because this article tells me they don't know crap about whats going on. Even if NVIDIA and ATi made a card with HDCP support built in and 1080P , there wouldn't be a PC monitor to support it. I give it 14 months for everyone on the PC side to get things rolling.

[neuroking]

Yeah, but according to the article, the issue is that there is no crypto chip built into the consumer boards. I don't see 1080P support for monitors being a big deal. As long as there are at least 1080 lines or resolution (almsot all 20"+ monitors), you can scale and black bar the rest. I assumed that was part of the deal. You get a DVD, and you need a program that will decrypt and play it (the maker of which pays the royalties along with the vid card manufacturer). You can scale the playback however you want. You're thinking connecting a hidef player to a separate monitor source input. I'm talking playing through Windows.

And you can watch DVDs on external monitors on laptops. You just have to have it playing on only one monitor (no mirroring or spanning). I have to show profs how to do that all the time ("Here's a video clip... ah crap..." <grumble> "I'll fix it in 2 keystrokes.") Same thing happens with a dual monitor setup.

I thought that the decoding scheme is known (H.264), and therefore the card manufacturers could build in hardware decoding for the codec and HDCP algorithm. Then when the standards are finalized, firmware or driver updates would fill in the gaps.

[ECA]

MY, IMO, PROBLEM...

Is the drivers NEEDED...
Its like...you need a 1700+mhz system to play a DVD on a computer..ANd it still dont SYNC UP all the time.
AND do you think theres a 1700+mhz CHIP in a DVD player?? NOT... Its like a 900-1200mhz chip. MAX...Unless you want to pay the EXTRA for a $300+ player..
The question comes to WHY??? software DRIVER over a HARDWARE driver...
Know whats REAL funny? when DVD first came out...there WERE some cards that HAD, the DVD driver ON THE CARD... OR at LEAST a pass thru..

DUMP the software drivers and GET the Video companies MAKING them ON THE CARD...

If you depend on a software driver, they can ADD to it, that IF a Blu-or HDDVD is inserted, IT WONT READ IT....

[Ioman]

http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/02/13/060232

Your article got Slashdotted. I still say its too early to determine how Blu-ray will be handled on the PC side. The technology for decoding it is there on the ATI boards, its just a matter of getting around the HDCP issue, and my guess is that it will not be an issue on the PC side.

When you play video from your laptop to a monitor, its to an actual PC monitor right? Not a CRT or plasma TV? And you are probably using the VGA/DVI output, not S-video. Try doing it with the S-Video jack, I bet it doesnt work.

[jtfields]

The more I read about Windows Vista the more I hate it. I keep expecting to read that I'll have to cut off my left nut and feed it to the motherboard to activate Vista.

[Ioman]

The more I read about Windows Vista the more I hate it. I keep expecting to read that I'll have to cut off my left nut and feed it to the motherboard to activate Vista.


hahaha I was laughing hard at that. I totally agree. I don't think I will touch Vista for quite some time.

[neuroking]

No, your left nut will be for registering it. The RIGHT one is for activation.

[Ioman]

No frank and beans please!

[ECA]

WELL,
I think the Issue will come to the Port use, as IO has mentioned.
If its going to use the VGA Port, there is NO reason, for it NOT to be ANY format you wish...
BUT, I think they will set the HDMI plug on the PC, for the HD output of DVD. This is the DELAY from sony, I will BET..
I can SEE, Sony, placing a special plug on the Blu-ray, to goto a pass thru on the vid card, for PLAYBACK ONLY. and then placing a software restriction on VGA output, as they ALREADY do.

[ECA]

considering all the power it took to display a Standard DVD, on a PC...I dont know IF I want to see what it takes for HD...And trying to keep Sync..

[ECA]

WOW,
slashdot, is really going wild.. on this..

[seans]

For some reasonable thoughts and some real information take a quick read of the other technica to see what caeasar has learned about all this.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060214-6177.html

To sum up, for the most part the guys at FSquad where almost right, no card in the marketplace today will play the content and it's hazy when they will actually show up since the bloody "standard" has not been completed.

As for the not being able to view the content on a PC, personally I think the FSquad guys got their articles mixed up with what's going on with cable card, which itself is another PITA.

[Ioman]

So ATI's AVIVO technology is pretty much usless since it cannot output the resolutions we need for Blu-ray and HD-DVD?

[seans]

So ATI's AVIVO technology is pretty much usless since it cannot output the resolutions we need for Blu-ray and HD-DVD?

It can do what it says, however there are no crypto keys embeded into the chip to allow for the decode of the content so it just won't do it.

This crypto crap in every level of the process is simply stupid. The drive, the software, the hardware, the screen... what's next a blood test to make sure you're human before you can watch?

[ECA]

the HDCP, could be bypassed. Easy.
As its based on the Idea that BOTH UNITS, TV and DVD, MUST use it. The DVD itself, has NO funtion in that.
So, as long as the Display dont have it, as Monitors DONT...It should have little or no problems.
As to the video cards, I would think, that they left an OPEN programmable location..And in the end they will just ADD whats needed..

Still like the 512 meg, AGP, x1600 card..

[dang]

... what's next a blood test to make sure you're human before you can watch?

Nope, just a urine test.

[neuroking]

Actually, all HD content will have a watermark system that even if the HDCP is bypassed will be recognized by players and disallow playback.

I've decided I won't be buying either. I just realized that some of my local stations are in 720p native, and I don't see any difference between that and a DVD at 480P. Screw the industry.

[ECA]

NK..
90% of it comes down to 1 thing..
How many dots and HOW wide you can spread them..

I try to show ppl, on there comps...the bigger the size, on THAT monitor, REALLy dont add much.. I dont CARE you can do 1900x1200 on a 17 inch... I cant SEe the Icons..
Place that on a HD/widescreen setup, 4'x 3', and you MIGHT have something, and be able to SEE the icons.

[Ioman]

Actually, all HD content will have a watermark system that even if the HDCP is bypassed will be recognized by players and disallow playback.

I've decided I won't be buying either. I just realized that some of my local stations are in 720p native, and I don't see any difference between that and a DVD at 480P. Screw the industry.


Whoa there, if you can't tell the difference, you need to get a better TV man. I can see a HUGE difference on my Hitachi plasma. Heck I laughed when Enterprise was on, you could see the makeup on the aliens faces! lol

[neuroking]

Looks like ATI is busy covering their tracks! LOL!

http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/02/17/1353223

I THINK this is illegal. They should have added an asteriks with a footnote that says something like "On OEM boards only. Contact your representative for complete information" or something...

[Ioman]

What a bunch of idiots. What the heck was ATI thinking? They added these specs to the package to sell the card, nevermind people could not use that feature...

[neuroking]

Okay, so I'm wrong about the quality difference, but really, is this change worth repurchasing your tv, stereo, dvd/hd/bd player...

http://www.cornbread.org/FOTRCompare/index.html

[Ioman]

Wow thats a huge difference, great find! I hope it really looks that good. Toshiba's HD-DVD player is supposedly coming out in a couple weeks.

[Ioman]

Check it out! You can see the new Toshiba already at Crutchfield: http://www.crutchfield.com/S-phL9H4h4lFF/cgi-bin/ProdGroup.asp?g=279850

$499 for the entry-level player.

I don't see 1080P listed yet as a supported resolution.

[ECA]

WELL,
As a mention...
My computer can already do the res...Its just IF THEY LET me..