multimedia speakers vs. home theater

[ninethirty]

So here I am, reading reviews on home theater setups and computer speaker setups...every now and then in a computer speaker review they'll say things like "it even rivals some home theater setups!" So, if we're talking about a $250 set (I guess mid-range for computer speakers, low-end for home theater), what are the pros and cons of going for multimedia speakers with decoder (like the Midiland 7100 or 8200 or the Logitech z680) vs. a cheap reciever, 5 cheap KLH-ish satellites, and a small sub?
In particular, is there any way to route 3D positional audio from games through a home theater setup (assuming i can do dolby digital out to a receiver)?

Thoughts?

[Ioman]

I always felt that when people claim a computer speaker setup could rival a home theater speaker system, they must not own a truly nice home theater system. I have the Klipsch 4.1 Promedia speaker system in my computer room and some 10 year old Advent speakers (soon to be replaced) in my media room and I still think the Advents sound better. Sure they are old, but the bass they put out and the highs still sound good for a room of that size. The Klipsch speakers sound awesome for sure, but you are talking about 2 6" subs in the woofer....while that may "boom" in your computer room I feel it just doesn't have the bass that a lot of movies require to give you that feeling of being in the movie.

The thing with audio is that is truly depends on the ears of the listener. I would recommend trying out some nice computer speakers if you are trying to stay within a certain budget.

BTW, I prefer floor standing speakers to satellites any day in a home theater application.

[ECA]

NOW, I have said this before, with good reason.
GET a GOOD boombox, with audio INPUTS.

REASONS:
Want to play a music CD, and NOT on the comp.
Play background music and NOT use Comp resources.
Play a TAPE.
Play the radio.
And when you turn off the comp, your CD, and TAPE arent STUCK in the comp.

If you just want to listen to music in the Comp area, WHY use the comp, use the boom box.
There are a FEW NICE boxes, even some with Dolby 5.1 speaker setup.
You want the RCA inputs...

NOW, If you want to spend $1000 for a computer speaker setup, GO FOR IT. But why spend so much for a video game, or music, when you can convert it to MP3, Music CD, and play it on your STEREO/boombox

[ninethirty]

That's an interesting thought, ECA...I hadn't thought of a boombox. I'm definitely not in the $1000 market....more like the $200 that Klipsch's cost on Ebay. Yes, Ioman, I would like to audition the speakers, but unfortunately it seems that the average computer store that sells computer speaker setups don't let you audition your own music. Both bestbuy and CC have this annoying techno CD playing on repeat in their 'test the speakers' area. Sure, I like techno, but it's useless for auditioning speakers -- all you can hear is the bass and a bit of the mids. Not exactly tonal variety.
I have found the answer to one of my questions, though: playing games and routing the positional audio through home theater is only possible if you route the analog out of a soundcard to the analog in of a home theater, and the quality is restricted by the quality of your D/A converters on your sound card. Digital out will be in stereo, not 5.1 surround, unless you have the nForce's audio (not even Audigy2 can do that). That tidbit was harder to find out that I expected; I guess I'm not as good at googling as I thought.
So it sounds like my Nforce has to be the sole game platform if i go the home theater route (or a boombox like ECA says, with digital in...although I'm likely to go with the flexibility of a component-based system unless a boombox really wows me).
Alas, nice speakers and receivers are $$! I think the electronics industry was only put here to tempt me. :)

[Archon]

I would rather have multimedia speakers, because I have a fast enough machine to not need to worry about my audio player using a lot of system resources. Plus, my gaming and DVD watching would be spifftastic with a 5.1 speaker set.

Besides, my PC is always on to begin with. Plus, most well done multimedia speakers have inputs for aux devices, such as my MiniDisc player.

And as for the Techno -- uh, they dont at my store.. try changing the station ;)

[neuroking]

First off prioritize which location you want high quality sound. If you're gonna play DVD-As and MP3s on your comp, and you watch most your movies in front of the comp, get good comp speakers (LOVE my Klipsche PM5.1s). If all you want is to listen to a little music in front of the comp, settle for a nice 3 piece set. (another thing to consider is how loud your computer is, since a nice set of speakers means jack if your fans are like jet engines).

If you want fuller, space filling sound for larger areas, where you can put larger speakers, spend the money on HT speakers. Remembered that they are engineered for larger areas, and most audio experts will always suggest a larger set of floor standing speakers over satellites. I'm sure there's something about the need for certain air movements and reverberations.

Also, some price difference is probably because of consumer types. Mark up the speakers that have mass appeal, so you make more money overall. Hook early consumers, such as college kids, with lower priced sets for their computer, and hit them with the higher pricetag when they go to get the same experience when they're lounging on the couch.

Just some thoughts
Brandon

[ninethirty]

Thanks for the advice.
Archon, they wouldn't let us change the channel...evil best buy people. It is running a CD in a little Discman that's sheilded by a cage, so we can't steal it...or change the CD. Alas, what this world has come to...
Brandon, it is a pretty small room and I am usually near the computer, or at least near enough that a speaker set that focused around the computer would be acceptable. Movies happen on a 21" monitor.

With your considerations in mind, my search has centered on two options: an Altec-Lansing ADA-885 that I can get for about $100 (very similar to the Klipsch 4.1...built-in Dolby decoder) or a home theater setup that includes a basic 5.1 reciever, JBL NS1 speakers (4 N24 bookshelfs, 1 N-center center channel), and a 60 watt Sony SA-WM20 sub for about $500 all together. I'm positive that the HT setup offers better sound, but it's hard to tell how much. Unfortunateately there's no way (that I know of) to audition the two together.

(the Klipsch 4.1 or 5.1 may reenter the race...they're nice)

Obviously, the choice is mine and depends on how much I'm willing to spend. But I'm open to persuasion from either side: in your opinion, is pretty decent HT setup is worth 5x more than good computer speakers? Have experience one way or the other?

Thanks for the insight

930

[Ioman]

I would ditch the Altec Lansing... I do not think any of their system sound that good and I think they put their money into the look, not the sound. If you want to stay around the $100 price range, I would recommend the Logitech Z-640 speaker system reviewed here: http://reviews.designtechnica.com/review1.html

This system has recieved rave reviews accross the net and in magazines. It also supports 5.1 Dolby Digital.

In my opinion a good HT setup is worth a lot more than an expensive computer speaker system setup. Heck, I have the Klipsch Pro Media 4.1 and only have the front 2 speakers plugged in LOL. I do not watch DVD's on my computer because I prefer them on my home theater setup. If I really want a good sounding gaming experience, I just put on my $30 Denon headphones...

Just my 2 cents.

[pdxflyboy]

I bought these for a system i built and WoW was i impressed!
My computer is my jukebox and w/out my music i'd go crazy.
But my 3 piece Labtec system sounds like garbage compared to these. I hope to upgrade to these soon.

[ninethirty]

The Logitech's don't actually do Dolby decoding though; they have analog in. For sound coming from an Nforce motherboard, I'd rather use the Nforce's dolby digital output to go into something with a dolby decoder.
The range of computer speakers I'm looking at are the Klipsch 4.1 range; the kind that are $200 street and $100 ebay. Wow, at $60 those logitechs must be incredibly cheap on the ebay scene...almost worth the compromise on the digital. They must be worth it.

Ioman, I think you've really hit on something with the headphones. I'm starting to really like that idea: you get the hifi sound and don't wake the neighbors; good headphones are exponentially cheaper than good speakers. How do they work with gaming? I've heard that they really can do 3d positional audio (even hearing things above and below you as well), but I don't understand how that could be, having only 2 speakers and all.
With that, i could compromise on speakers that just worked for movies. Something like the logitechs or klipschs would do nicely there.

pdxflyboy, what speakers are you talking about? the logitechs?

[Ioman]

Originally posted by ninethirty
The Logitech's don't actually do Dolby decoding though; they have analog in. For sound coming from an Nforce motherboard, I'd rather use the Nforce's dolby digital output to go into something with a dolby decoder.
The range of computer speakers I'm looking at are the Klipsch 4.1 range; the kind that are $200 street and $100 ebay. Wow, at $60 those logitechs must be incredibly cheap on the ebay scene...almost worth the compromise on the digital. They must be worth it.

Ioman, I think you've really hit on something with the headphones. I'm starting to really like that idea: you get the hifi sound and don't wake the neighbors; good headphones are exponentially cheaper than good speakers. How do they work with gaming? I've heard that they really can do 3d positional audio (even hearing things above and below you as well), but I don't understand how that could be, having only 2 speakers and all.
With that, i could compromise on speakers that just worked for movies. Something like the logitechs or klipschs would do nicely there.

pdxflyboy, what speakers are you talking about? the logitechs?

I have some Denon Stereo headphones I picked up at Goof Guys for aroung $35. I think they sound better than anything my Klipsch puts out. The bass is deep, the treble and highs sound great and it doesn't wake up the wife. Sometimes the headphones get hot around ears (from leaving them on for so long) so when that happens, I just use my regular computer speakers. Just read the specs on the headphones before you buy. Sienheisser (spelling?), Sony and Denon make some great headphones.

[ninethirty]

How well does gaming work with headphones? Can you actually hear, say, someone sneaking up behind you?

[Ioman]

Originally posted by ninethirty
How well does gaming work with headphones? Can you actually hear, say, someone sneaking up behind you?

Better than any theater speaker setup...thats for sure.

[ninethirty]

Wow that's incredible....any idea how that works? With a 4.1 setup it will obviously play the sound in a rear speaker if they're behind you, and so on. But with headphones....?
Sounds like I'll have to do some googling to read about this.
Meanwhile, i've done a lot of research into the headphone world and have an order in for some Grado SR-60's. Excellent reviews everywhere; it was between those and some Sennheisers. I'll let you all know. For the record, the folks at Headroom (www.headphone.com) are GREAT to deal with.

[ECA]

Originally posted by ninethirty
Wow that's incredible....any idea how that works? With a 4.1 setup it will obviously play the sound in a rear speaker if they're behind you, and so on. But with headphones....?
Sounds like I'll have to do some googling to read about this.
Meanwhile, i've done a lot of research into the headphone world and have an order in for some Grado SR-60's. Excellent reviews everywhere; it was between those and some Sennheisers. I'll let you all know. For the record, the folks at Headroom (www.headphone.com) are GREAT to deal with.

930..
I pitty those who have NEVEr listened to Full positional stereo, or even Quad Stereo.
We had this thought along time ago, here on DT. And those of us that have HEARD it, wonder WHY 3.1, 4.1, 5.1,7.1 are really needed. Stereo, when USED, is Vantastic. And great headphones make it even better.

[neuroking]

Originally posted by ninethirty
Thanks for the advice.
Brandon, it is a pretty small room and I am usually near the computer, or at least near enough that a speaker set that focused around the computer would be acceptable. Movies happen on a 21" monitor.

With your considerations in mind, my search has centered on two options: an Altec-Lansing ADA-885 that I can get for about $100 (very similar to the Klipsch 4.1...built-in Dolby decoder) or a home theater setup that includes a basic 5.1 reciever, JBL NS1 speakers (4 N24 bookshelfs, 1 N-center center channel), and a 60 watt Sony SA-WM20 sub for about $500 all together. I'm positive that the HT setup offers better sound, but it's hard to tell how much. Unfortunateately there's no way (that I know of) to audition the two together.

(the Klipsch 4.1 or 5.1 may reenter the race...they're nice)

Obviously, the choice is mine and depends on how much I'm willing to spend. But I'm open to persuasion from either side: in your opinion, is pretty decent HT setup is worth 5x more than good computer speakers? Have experience one way or the other?

Thanks for the insight

930

Wow, the discussion took off without me. Sry for the delay. If you're really going to use your computer as your main tv/entertainment, I would pick up a TV tuner card with coax in (for cable), a SoundBlaster Audigy 2 (whatever you can get cheapest, all have the same basic options), and either a Klipsche ProMedia 5.1 or Logitech Z-680. If you want to audition the sound difference between two computer speakers, ti's pretty easy.... buy them both. Talk tot he people at the store about their return policy, buy them both, and return the one you like less. Of course this requires purchasing locally, but speakers tend to have higher failure rates than most computer equipment and worse warrenties.

I think what it really comes down to the is teh climate that you use to relax. If your idea of relaxing is sitting in an ergo chair at the computer, the a HTPC is the way to go. If you have a smaller place, or don't like big pieces of electronics equipment, or you have champagne taste but without the budget, youcan soup up your comp alot easier piece by piece than a HT setup. If you go the HT route, you have to buy it all at once. Instead, jsut buy the SB Audigy2 now. Enjoy it a month until you find a nice pricebreak on speakers (pssst check out fatwallet.com, pricewatch.com, bensbargains.com, and teh forums on anandtech.com). Then research the speakers. Find them at a local dealer, buy em, audition them, and if you got a good deal, keep the one you like. Otherwise return them both and order from the cheapest place on the net.

Honestly, comparing the setup I gave you and the one you had for the HT setup, the one I put above will almost surely sound better.

Ah man, more posts below to respond too... hehe... taking them in stride...

[neuroking]

Originally posted by ninethirty
Ioman, I think you've really hit on something with the headphones. I'm starting to really like that idea: you get the hifi sound and don't wake the neighbors; good headphones are exponentially cheaper than good speakers. How do they work with gaming? I've heard that they really can do 3d positional audio (even hearing things above and below you as well), but I don't understand how that could be, having only 2 speakers and all.
With that, i could compromise on speakers that just worked for movies. Something like the logitechs or klipschs would do nicely there.

pdxflyboy, what speakers are you talking about? the logitechs?

Headphones are okay for gaming, and no they are not the best for directionality. There are some post processing things they can do, but the speakers will seem more realistic. BUT, it may not be big enough for you to really care, honestly. Check out this for more info... http://headroom.headphone.com/layout.php

Go for Sennheiser or Grado. Avoid Sony and Koss, generally. You can listen to these at any high quality audio dealer (like Tweeter, but not Best Buy et al), and are definately a nice compromise. Of course you are tethered (unless you go with wireless headphones, which cost more and are really not as good sound quality wise). Certainly allows you to pump up the volume as high as you want.

Hope that helps.
Brandon

[ninethirty]

Thanks for all the replies. I've merged various pieces of advice so far, and I'm happy with the results:

For my digital, (not exactly) hi-fi listening pleasure, I still have my Nforce; most reviews claim the dolby digital out is of better quality than most soundcards. I picked up a Sennheiser DSP350 off of ebay that decodes Dolby Digital into a stereo stream for headphones. Interesting idea; I'll see how it works. It's pretty cheap ($30 ish). I picked up some Grado headphones (ordered them from Headphone.com and got them 20 hours later--great!) and I'm very happy with them. So my Beethoven urges are satiated.

For the games and the occasional DVD, I'm taking your advice, neuroking, and going for the Audigy+speaker setup. As much as I'd like to spring for the Klipsch or z680 off the bat, I'm going to see how the lower-end brethren suit me first. There are 2 different 5.1 setups for < $50 after rebate, so I can't resist at least testing them out. Neuroking, I went with the auditioning idea: picked up a couple of speaker sets from Best Buy, confirmed that I could take back whichever I didn't like. Thanks for the idea; for some reason I hadn't thought of that before. I'm fully expecting to like the logitechs better, since they were reviewed very well everywhere I've seen (including here). And since I use headphones for music, I can sacrifice some audio quality on the speakers. Unreal 2003 doesn't really stretch the limits of audio fidelity; it mainly needs things to go "boom" at the appropriate time.

Total cost is much less than a home theater system, and even less than the Klipsch 5.1's alone. When it all comes in (Nforce is out for repairs and audigy is on order) I'll let you know how it works.

[Ioman]

Originally posted by ninethirty
Thanks for all the replies. I've merged various pieces of advice so far, and I'm happy with the results:

For my digital, (not exactly) hi-fi listening pleasure, I still have my Nforce; most reviews claim the dolby digital out is of better quality than most soundcards. I picked up a Sennheiser DSP350 off of ebay that decodes Dolby Digital into a stereo stream for headphones. Interesting idea; I'll see how it works. It's pretty cheap ($30 ish). I picked up some Grado headphones (ordered them from Headphone.com and got them 20 hours later--great!) and I'm very happy with them. So my Beethoven urges are satiated.

For the games and the occasional DVD, I'm taking your advice, neuroking, and going for the Audigy+speaker setup. As much as I'd like to spring for the Klipsch or z680 off the bat, I'm going to see how the lower-end brethren suit me first. There are 2 different 5.1 setups for < $50 after rebate, so I can't resist at least testing them out. Neuroking, I went with the auditioning idea: picked up a couple of speaker sets from Best Buy, confirmed that I could take back whichever I didn't like. Thanks for the idea; for some reason I hadn't thought of that before. I'm fully expecting to like the logitechs better, since they were reviewed very well everywhere I've seen (including here). And since I use headphones for music, I can sacrifice some audio quality on the speakers. Unreal 2003 doesn't really stretch the limits of audio fidelity; it mainly needs things to go "boom" at the appropriate time.

Total cost is much less than a home theater system, and even less than the Klipsch 5.1's alone. When it all comes in (Nforce is out for repairs and audigy is on order) I'll let you know how it works.


Sounds like you made some smart decisions, let us know how they sound!

[neuroking]

An excellent set of purchases I would say! Hooray for smart consumers! My last set of speakers was a Logitech 4.1 setup and it was definately excellent and cost <$150 (when they were more expensive), and they definately did the job for gaming and movies.

Post how the DSP350 is! I've heard very little about it, and it sounds pretty wicked.

Regards,
Brandon

[ninethirty]

a quick correction for people looking at the thread: it's a Sennheiser DSP 360, not 350. And it should be getting to me tomorrow, so I'll let you all know how it works.

Thanks again for all your help.

[Unregistered]

Hmm...followup on the home theater. First, the Sennheiser DSP 360 doesn't do quite what I thought it did. Which is a shame. Contrary to what the description implied to me ("takes Dolby surround-encoded audio and converts it into 3D sound with 2 speakers or headphones") it does not take Dolby surround as an input. It takes normal 2-channel stereo sound as an input, and gives 2-channel stereo sound as an output. In between it does a Dolby Prologic transformation. I'm not quite sure what they mean by "Dolby-surround-encoded audio", because I don't know how one would encode Dolby surround information into an analog stereo output stream, but perhaps that is my audio ignorance.
It does make a decent headphone amp though; it's kind of fun to play with.

On a brighter note, I agree with Benj Mauck's review (http://reviews.designtechnica.com/review1.html) of the Logitech z640's; they're quite nice for the money. I liked them better than the Inspire 5100's; those are going back today.

I need to find a cheap Dolby decoder now, but I'm happy otherwise. And Command and Conquer: Generals is sounding very nice through the Logitech subwoofer...

[ninethirty]

oops...that post above was me. Just didn't log in properly.

[neuroking]

Glad yer happy with your purchase. Shame about the 360, though. Have you heard the Sony "surround headphones"? I haven't, which is why I ask, but I seem to remember someone saying that surround with headphones really is impossible. Ah well.

For a cheap Dolby decoder, you could always just get a cheap 5.1 receiver, or there's the Yamaha thingy that connects to your sound card easily, but I think it might be pricey.

Just a couple thoughts.
Brandon

[spim]

I tend to lean heavy towards real speakers, have tried (due to cheap thinking re: speakers after expensive thinking re: computer), and finally broke down and bought a set of klipsch promedia 5.1...
lemme say this... my dvd player on my home system hasn't been used in the last 30 days, all I use is the computer for home audio now.... i'm not saying that the klip's are significantly better than my current floorstanding, but the multimedia and hard drive capabilities of the computer means that I have my entire audio library on the hard drive with comparable sound, NO comparison between ANY boom box and this 5.1 system.

[Unregistered]

In the last 6 months I have "auditioned" creative 5700, 6700 and Logitechs 560 offering's and you know they are all rubblish when compared to:
(a) my standard stereo Mordaunt Short MS20 i Pearls or
(b) Lstening to music / film soundtracks using dolby headphone (via Power DVD XP 4) or for that matter playing games (particularly EAX Enhanced HD) using headphones.

The sales "puff" dosen't even get close to eXpectation and I am amazed at the reviews I have seen for the above kit which (even using an Audigy 2) dosen't even get close to cutting it soundwise against even old hat budget speakers like my Mordaunt shorts.

I have been fortunate in been able to haggle refunds on all the above and having learnt my lesson stick to using the basic speaker that came with my PC (a P4 2.53) or when I want to watch a movie (on the PC) or play a game use a set ot decent quality headphones (Beyer Galatic) which gives a vastly improved immerxive experience than any of the above offering can get close too!

[ECA]

I STILL suggest you get a boombox, with Audio input. REALLY.
If you cant send it to your MAIN system or if you want a Separate system for your comp. For a cool $100 you can have a decent setup.

[pdxflyboy]

does anyone have any experience using the digital output on their audigy card?

I recently connected my card to my reciever and want to find a way to keep my reciever plugged in as well as my pc speakers so i dont have to keep switching them.