Whats the deal with MiniDiscs

[Archon]

Okay, I've a few things to say about MiniDiscs.

First of all, I dont understand (though I have a rough idea), why MiniDiscs arent popular in America. They have many advantages over CDs, Tapes and even MP3s, yet still, Americans do not seem interested.

Lets do a quick compare. Minidiscs rewritable, digital, changable, small and sturdy media. You can literaly put a mic into your minidisc recorder and record right to the disk. You can then rename the clip on the player. You can even cut the track up into several different tracks, and then change their order on the disk. Minidiscs are much stronger than CDs. CDs are large, fragile, and easily damaged. Minidiscs are small, and can by no easily conceivable means be broken (I've heard of someone running over a MiniDisc with their car, and it still works). The other major advantage of this is that Minidiscs CANNOT be scratched like their CD counterparts. Throw a MD in your pocket (its so small it can easily fit), or just throw them in your hollowed out book (like in The Matrix).

Minidiscs use ATRAC Compression (Adaptive Transform Acoustic Coding), which is basically just MP3s. In a time where a 128kbps MP3 is considered "acceptable, SP mode (74min/80min, etc... depending on the disc) on Minidiscs are comprable to 292kbps. The advent of MDLP (Minidisc Long Play), lets you store 160 minutes on LP2 (132kbps), and 320 minutes on LP3 (66kbps).

Minidiscs themselves are on average $2. $2 which can hold 160 minutes of music (mp3 quality), as opposed to a little, more expensive flash card. Minidiscs are also recordable from almost any source. Plug the MD into your TV, Radio, Guitar, CD Player, and you can record right to the disc. As opposed to MP3 players which need a computer to work.

NetMD allows music to be transfered in LP2/3 mode to the MiniDisc at 16x and 32x real time (although the MZ-N10, and newer models can do 32x in LP2). With a USB connection and Sony's OpenMG software (or any assortment of plugins), you can select your songs, hit burn, and you got a minidisc. I, for example, have both my U2 CDs on 1 MiniDisc (which is perfect for music libraries), and it only took a few minutes to do all of it.

Minidiscs, I think, also offer a good oppertunity for the music industry *ducks from thrown debris* - I am serious. at $2 a disc, the RIAA can stand giving them away for free. People can select and pay for their music and have it instantly put onto a disc, no need to worry about cases, or the person damaging the disc going home, because its protected in a plastic shell (this would be done at a kiosk in a mall, etc...). Likewise, since MD are recordable, they can present their own disc for burning (and simply pay for the songs). As Minidiscs cannot upload to a PC (yet...*mumbles*), there could be no piracy (unless the person sat there and uploaded songs in real time). (yes! I stole this idea from Japan, because they are doing it there!) -- yes, MD are very popular outside of America.

Some problems with MD, as I said, are that it cannot be uploaded to a PC (though take that as you will)... Other problems are Sony's Anti-Piracy paranoia. Although ATRAC is a great compression format, its implimentation on OpenMG is horrid (it monitors a song and how many times it gets uploaded to a media, 3 times in a row and its dead). Although I suppose 3 times is plenty, Im sure there are people who will ***** about it (like me).

The other problem is Sony's mad lack of marketing of the MD in America. That and prices of certain units. Although most American models are ~$150, the top of the line recorder/players are $350 (although they are REALLY nice. In a world where plastic CD players rule, it is not uncommon for these players to be made of aluminum and magnesium alloy.) I wont even get into car units (which are outrageously priced eg: $508.78... I think, the site Im looking at has one listed for 58,000 Yen).

Thats my rant for the day, I'll attach some pics below for the hell of it.


edit - speeeeeling

[Archon]

this is an MZ-N10, the one above is an MZ-N910

they are both recorders/players

[Archon]

this is the MZ-E10, tis a player only (but its mad small)

[Archon]

here are some minidiscs...

[Archon]

LAM-Z1. MiniDisc and CD player (in fact, you can record from the CD to the MD)

[Archon]

for the Sharp fans... IM-MT880

[Archon]

Kenwood Rampage MDX-J9/J7 boombox

[Archon]

you prob seen this at Circuit City...

Sony PCV-MXS10 NetMD Desktop

Sony PCV-MXS10 is Sony's desktop system equipped with NetMD. Unit can be regarded as one of the most advanced all-in-one multimedia home PCs in the market (as of 12.01).
Pentium IV 1.7 GHz
512MB SDRAM
80GB hard disk
Windows XP
DVD-RW drive
First NetMD PC
MDLP MiniDisc drive
Memory stick drive
FM tuner
256MB memory
Modem (56kbps)
Network connector (100BASE-TX / 10BASE-T)
Modular jack for modem
Analog video input / S video input
Headphone terminal
Speaker output
Keyboard terminal
USB×2 and ic.link S400 (6 pin ×1 and 4 pin ×1)
Display output (×1 and VG type ×1 for attachment liquid crystal display)

[Archon]

and because Hello Kitty is my God

[questionlp]

I personally love MiniDisc and I guess it shows since I have a total of four recorders (one component deck, three portables: MZ-R30, MZ-R90, MZ-R909). I have recorded a fair amount of my CDs onto MiniDisc and created a lot of "mix" discs for traveling.

I love 'em not only for their quality (I record at regular non-MDLP to keep quality high and fairs a lot better than 192kbps MP3 or 160-ish kbps Ogg Vorbis, I can't hear the different between it and 256kbps LAME MP3), size (the MZ-R90 and R909 are small, but the E10 and newer N-series recorders are smaller still), the disks are f-ing sturdy and stronger than CD's... and battery life rules. People complain about realtime recording (non-NetMD here) but that gives me two things: quality since I record from a source CD not MP3, and I get to listen to music while it's recording.

The inability to upload songs via USB on the NetMD players really suck, and that is the main reason why I decided to get the R909 over the NetMD (that and I don't mind doing a realtime record via Optical out on my deck to the PC). I can definitely understand the SCMS copy protection, which can be bypassed using a PC sound card.

Sony dropped the ball big time when it came to marketing. Instead of trying to make it a competitor to MP3 players, they should have marketed it as a cassette tape killer. After I got my first MD recorder, the R30, I stopped using cassette tape at that point. I also loved the fact that you can title discs and tracks... which beats the heck out of finding a CD-R that could write out CD-Text back then AND a player that would handle CD-Text (which isn't the case with any of my portable or car CD players).

I do have to admit, SD or CF-based MP3 players are now smaller and do not have any moving parts, making them more popular over MD... with the exception that SD and CF cards are still more expensive than a 5-pack of 80-min MD blanks.

[Archon]

I have an MZ-R909, great unit. But the 32x NetMD really got to me. I have no need to upload to my PC, so I went and picked up an MZ-N10 while in HK. let me tell you something, it is TIGHT. Really small, and really fast, not to mention a better battery.

I do have to admit, SD or CF-based MP3 players are now smaller and do not have any moving parts, making them more popular over MD... with the exception that SD and CF cards are still more expensive than a 5-pack of 80-min MD blanks.

Well, I dunno, MD players might have moving parts, but that doesnt mean they skip, most have the G-Protection (Im such a Sonyite) in them, making it virtually skip free, unless you're skydiving or some BS like that (skydiving with a minidisc.. I'll have to try that). But yeah, they are more popular. I think the main reason is because people woh arent
in the know saw MP3 and thought "oooo...ahhh....buy....". Also that NetMD wasnt around back when the MP3 player craze hit.

To put into context: My 5 Dave Matthews Band CDs, are a total of 307 minutes. Two Minidiscs (160*2=320) which comes to $4. This is a total of 405 MB, so lets hit the Best Buy website, I'll buy two 256mb cards... or maybe one 512mb... SanDisk 256MB Secure Digital Memory Card $109.99 * 2 = $219.98. Hmmm, lets try 512 now... damnit, neither bby.com or circuitcity have 512mb SD cards.... uhh... Buy.com has a SimpleTech 512MB Secure Digital Card for $336.99.



Major price difference? no ;)

---

edit - random BS

[Archon]

MZ-R909

[dang]

That was an excellent post Archon! I would even elect to put that up as a Talkback.

[Archon]

random post nonsence...

I think MDs would have had a bright future in the automobile audio industry. As said, one disc can hold 160 minutes, so it will last quite some time. And a 6 disc player can hold 960 minutes (16 hours) of music. MDs dont scratch or anything, so just throw em around, no big cases or anything..

just ramblin..

shame they're so expensive tho, but check this tight stuff out:

http://users.rcn.com/hejie/frontier.html

[questionlp]

Even though I do tout MiniDiscs as being really nice, I mostly listen to stuff in MP3 format and off of my MP3 jukebox... mostly at work. Driving around with a hard drive-based jukebox isn't exactly my idea of not screwing it up mostly when it's reading off of the drive (some of the roads in the Portland area aren't exactly smooth and prefect).

That's where my portable MD units come in if I'm going to go on a long road trip, also battery life on the MD is much better than even the Nomad Jukebox 3 (the original Nomad Jukebox's battery life was and is a joke).

MiniDiscs in a cars is also a nice place for them and I've still been pondering about getting one, even if it means using a near-range FM modulator since the audio unit in my car is super-proprietary :( but, it's not cheap as stated above... although you get to have a lot more music available even at LP2 mode than a 10-disc CD changer (you may not get the best quality out of it compared to a source CD, not referring to mix CDs made from MP3s... but in a car, you'll probably not notice it too much).

[Archon]

I for some reason just dont like hard drive MP3 players... just seems like too much could go wrong, and they're too big... and ya got all your stuff on 1 thing, gotta go through all of it.. I'd rather just pop a disc in and know whats gonna play.

plus, if ya lose it, ya gotta redo all of it.

[questionlp]

That is one of the big downsides with hard drive based MP3 players... but I'm willing to risk it :)

For me, it's easier at work and sometimes at home since it's just one unit that has all of my songs; but it does become a PITA if I want to listen to a specific song. Each has it's downside and upside and I use both to cover the uses that I need :D

[ECA]

1) do we have ANY control over the market, NO.
As the record companies wont Like it, it took them 10 years to use CD's.
2) ability to protect from theft, in stores, Not very good.
3) Other data compatability, Not much. Mostly designed for MP3s.
4)sony has come out with a NEWER format, that 1" will store a WHOLE CD. Expand that format to a FULL CD(about 20x's).
5) DVd format, final format will be 19gig, consider that with this NEWER format. WOW.

I have a couple of things that Pique me.
1, is BLACK items that go in your car, or You have to find in your house, ANY bright color would be better.
2. is SIZE. SMALLER isnt better. It is much easier to loose, be stolen, misplaced. So, what they can make a CELL PHONE the size of your Jewerly(yes we had a write up on this). How much jewerly have you LOST. Who remembers the Bigfoot Hard drives by syquest, 5" wide drives NO RAILS. Easy installs.
3. formats. dont REALLY mind them, its that there are so MANY. It would be nice to have 3-5, but 6 is getting stupid.
How many CD formats do you KNOW(theres about 20 of them). Formats you may not have seen of or heard of. There are formats out there for 12" CD's. REALLY. And half those LARGE 12" CD's dont even hold 700 meg.

[Archon]

I have absolutly no clue what it is you just said

[ECA]

Originally posted by Archon
I have absolutly no clue what it is you just said

How much control do we have over the sales market. NONE.
the record market would REALLY like to be selling RECORDS still. But people liked CD's. And it took them 10 years to change over. As a store sale item, SIZE matters. What do you use CD's FOR, EVERYTHING. Not just mp3's. this coloum hasnt even touched on that concept. WHY have a media that you use ONLY for MP3. This format is/will only be temporary. There are newer ones on the horizan that beat even THIS format.

[Archon]

you CAN use Minidisc as a computer media format.

No, you cant control the market (but I wasnt aware that anyone here was saying we could)

MD themselves have much more uses than for mp3s, pay attention!

[ECA]

Originally posted by Archon
you CAN use Minidisc as a computer media format.

No, you cant control the market (but I wasnt aware that anyone here was saying we could)

MD themselves have much more uses than for mp3s, pay attention!


YEP, more uses for MP3, but what does the Comp drive cost for MD? And why have a DVD/CD/RW and then have a MD.
Most configs for comps are restricted enough with IDE, and 4 devices. Making your own Mp3 MD disks and haveing a CD/DVD kills 2 slots. Anybody know if they have a CD/DVD/MD drive??

I ask this because the Stores dont have precopied MD's, you will have to make your own. Unless you want to sit and MANUALLY record each sound track into it.

Think of all the devices you have hooked up to USB. 4 devices is enough if you ask me.
You will probably have to RE-process most Mp3's anyway as they are NOT for this format. And taking from a lower format and TRYING to increase Quality is NOT going to work well. It will work GREAT when MORE ppl hace the software to create the HIGH quality format, and use it in the first place.

I have to wonder tho, Mp3, at 133 bit, I can get about 6 hours on a CD. Why would I only want 2 hours.(is that right??)

[Archon]

Originally posted by ECA

I have to wonder tho, Mp3, at 133 bit, I can get about 6 hours on a CD. Why would I only want 2 hours.(is that right??)

That is of course depending on the fact that you have an MP3-playing portable. Then you've the fact of carrying around those CDs, how you do it, ECA, I dont know (magical ECA powers, I guess). Then the battery life on your CD player (many MD players have up to 54 hours battery life).

And I dont think you were paying attention to several of the other points (perhaps you dont wish to tackle those as well, as opposed to just pointing out the flaws)

as for pre-recorded MiniDiscs, in America, yes, its true, they are few and far between, but that is exactly because of the lack of MD's popularity. Go visit Japan or HK

[questionlp]

... or Australia or Western Europe/UK as well.

[Archon]

Originally posted by questionlp
... or Australia or Western Europe/UK as well.

Australia? they're not important :cool: :rolleyes: :D :P

[questionlp]

To add a little more... it wasn't until some of the newer MP3 Jukeboxes with recording capability were available that there was a decently priced portable recorder available.

Having a small portable MiniDisc recorder and five MDs can easily fit in one jacket pocket, the microphone, additional batteries (only needed if it's a long concert or lecture), carrying case fit in my other pocket. You get much better quality records with that setup and it's compact without worrying about thrashing a hard drive around (not a good thing if you are in a packed concert house with a good chance of you getting squished...) and even the recording battery life of a jukebox is only 2-3 hours at most.

Sure, there are some flash-based MP3 devices that can record, but in order to fit several hours into say a 256Mbyte, you either have to use < 160kbps (which still isn't that great if quality and sharing is involved, look at archive.org/audio for more) or buy several of those cards... and those things aren't as cheap as blank MDs either.

As I stated earlier, MiniDisc is a perfect replacement for any form of cassette, and even DAT for bootlegging concerts (of bands that allow tape sharing, w00!)... and DAT is nowhere cheaper than MiniDisc!

CDs... find me a portable CD recorder that is small and as portable as MiniDisc and has the recording battery life of around 5-6 hours. Ditto with DVD.

Also, the DVD recordable drives available for consumers cannot record DVD-Audio (or SACD either), so you're stuck recording to raw wave files or MP3 (or Ogg Vorbis)... even then, do you want to lug a laptop and several batteries around with you to a concert? Also, I haven't seen any portable DVD-Audio players that are under $300 either.

MiniDisc is no perfect format for everybody and every purposes... at least it provides an additional choice, alternative to the market and promotes a bit more competition.