The Apple PowerMac G5 is announced!

[Ioman]

Powered by the revolutionary PowerPC G5 processor designed by IBM and Apple, the Power Mac G5 is the first personal computer to utilize 64-bit processing technology for unprecedented memory expansion (up to 8GB) and advanced 64-bit computation, while running existing 32-bit applications natively.
“The 64-bit revolution has begun and the personal computer will never be the same again,” said Steve Jobs, Apple’s CEO. “The new Power Mac G5 combines the world’s first 64-bit desktop processor, the industry’s first 1 GHz front-side bus, and up to 8GB of memory to beat the fastest Pentium 4 and dual Xeon-based systems in industry-standard benchmarks and real-world professional applications.”

Delivering the industry’s highest system bandwidth, the Power Mac G5 line offers dual 2.0 GHz PowerPC G5 processors, each with an independent 1 GHz front-side bus, for an astounding 16 GBps of bandwidth. The line also features the industry’s highest bandwidth memory (400 MHz 128-bit DDR SDRAM with throughput up to 6.4 GBps); the industry’s fastest PCI interface available on a desktop (133 MHz PCI-X); and cutting-edge AGP 8X Pro graphics capabilities, all within a stunning new professional aluminum enclosure featuring innovative computer-controlled cooling for quiet operation.

The PowerPC G5 processor is a result of the strategic relationship between Apple and IBM. At frequencies up to 2 GHz, the PowerPC G5 introduces 64-bit processing technology to desktop computing, while also running 32-bit applications natively. The PowerPC G5 processor architecture is based on a completely new execution core that features massively parallel computation for an unprecedented 215 in-flight instructions, full symmetric multi-processing, two double precision floating point units and an optimized Velocity Engine™. The PowerPC G5 chips are fabricated in IBM’s $3 billion state-of-the-art semiconductor facility in East Fishkill, N.Y.

The new Power Mac G5 is the world’s fastest personal computer based on SPEC® CPU 2000 benchmark results and leading professional application performance tests when compared against 3.0 GHz Pentium 4-based systems and 3.06 GHz Dual Xeon-based systems:


In the SPEC CPU 2000 independent testing comparing the Power Mac G5 against leading 3.0 GHz Pentium 4-based systems and 3.06 GHz Dual Xeon-based systems, the Power Mac G5 won three out of four key benchmark tests. All tests were run with the same industry standard GCC 3.3 compiler to insure a fair comparison;
Single processor tests results show the Power Mac G5 an impressive 21 percent faster than the 3.0 GHz Pentium 4-based PC on SPECfp_base2000, which measures single processor floating point performance, and 10 percent slower on SPECint_base2000, which measures single processor integer performance; and
Dual processor tests results, which determine the fastest personal computer since dual processor systems are faster than single processor systems, are a clean sweep with the Power Mac G5 beating the 3.06 GHz Dual Xeon workstations by an incredible 41 percent on SPECfp_rate_base2000, which measures the total floating point throughput of the system, and edging out the same system by three percent on SPECint_rate_base2000, which measures total integer computation throughput.

In addition to outperforming Pentium 4- and Dual Xeon-based systems in industry-standard benchmarks, the Power Mac G5 ran significantly faster than Pentium 4 and Dual Xeon-based systems on performance tests of the most popular applications for creative professionals:


On a test of 45 commonly used actions, Adobe Photoshop ran twice as fast on the Power Mac G5 than on 3.06 GHz Dual Xeon workstations;
Logic Audio on the Power Mac G5 can play nearly 40 percent more tracks with reverbs applied than Cubase SX running on a 3.06 GHz Dual Xeon workstation; and
Genentech Blast runs up to five times faster on a Power Mac G5 than on a 3.06 GHz Dual Xeon workstation.

Complementing its computational power, the Power Mac G5 provides leading-edge expansion with dual 1.5 Gbps serial ATA interfaces; the industry’s fastest PCI interface available on a desktop with a 133 MHz and two 100 MHz, 64-bit PCI-X slots; and AGP 8X Pro graphics capable of supporting the power and thermal demands of high-end professional graphics cards. The Power Mac G5 comes standard with either the NVIDIA GeForceFX 5200 or the ATI Radeon 9600 Pro graphics card. As a build-to-order option for unprecedented 3D design, visualization and gaming, the Power Mac G5 line also features the ATI Radeon 9800 Pro—a workstation-class graphics card featuring per pixel and vertex shaders, and providing an astonishing fill rate of 3 billion textured pixels/second.

The Power Mac G5 delivers industry-leading connectivity and high-performance I/O for creative professionals with Gigabit Ethernet, FireWire® 800, two FireWire 400 ports, three USB 2.0 ports, dual display support, optical digital audio input and output, analog audio input and output and a headphone jack. The system also supports 54 Mbps AirPort® Extreme wireless networking and is Bluetooth ready for wireless connections to a host of Bluetooth-enabled peripherals.

The Power Mac G5 features a stunning new anodized aluminum alloy enclosure, designed to meet the needs of the most demanding professionals. The new enclosure is built around four independently controlled thermal zones for advanced airflow management, with fans in each zone that are individually controlled based on a sophisticated combination of thermal and power monitoring, resulting in the Power Mac G5 running two times quieter than the previous Power Mac G4. The G5 enclosure also features an easy-to-open access panel allowing quick access to internal components for tool-less installation of memory, hard drives, optical drives or an AirPort Extreme card. Front and rear handles allow professionals to rapidly and safely move Power Mac G5s when and where they need them, and front-mounted FireWire, USB2, and headphone ports provide convenient access for popular peripherals.

Pricing & Availability
The Power Mac G5, with a suggested retail price of $2,999 (US), includes:


Dual 2.0 GHz 64-bit PowerPC G5;
Dual Independent 1 GHz front-side buses;
512MB 400 MHz Dual Channel (128-bit) DDR;
8 DIMMs, 8GB maximum memory;
160GB Serial ATA hard drive;
AGP 8X Pro graphics slot;
RADEON 9600 Pro-64MB DDR;
3 PCI-X slots (one 64-bit 133 MHz, two 64-bit 100 MHz); and
4x SuperDrive™.

The Power Mac G5, with a suggested retail price of $2,399 (US), includes:


1.8 GHz 64-bit PowerPC G5;
900 MHz front-side bus;
512MB 400 MHz Dual Channel (128-bit) DDR;
8 DIMMs, 8GB maximum memory;
160GB Serial ATA hard drive;
AGP 8X Pro graphics slot;
NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 Ultra-64MB DDR;
3 PCI-X slots (one 64-bit, 133 MHz, two 64-bit 100 MHz); and
4x SuperDrive.

The Power Mac G5, with a suggested retail price of $1,999 (US), includes:


1.6 GHz 64-bit PowerPC G5;
800 MHz front-side bus;
256MB 333 MHz Dual Channel (128-bit) DDR;
4 DIMMs, 4GB maximum memory;
80GB Serial ATA hard drive;
AGP 8X Pro graphics slot;
NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 Ultra-64MB DDR;
3 PCI slots (64-bit, 33 MHz); and
4x SuperDrive.

The Power Mac G5 line will be available in August and will ship with Mac® OS X “Jaguar” with Mail, iChat™, Safari™, Sherlock®, Address Book, QuickTime®, iLife™ (includes iTunes®, iPhoto™, iMovie™, and iDVD™), iSync, iCal™, DVD Player, Classic environment, Acrobat Reader, Art Directors Toolkit, EarthLink, FAXstf, FileMaker Pro Trial, GraphicConverter, Microsoft Internet Explorer, Microsoft Office v. X Test Drive, OmniGraffle, OmniOutliner, QuickBooks for Mac New User Edition and Developer Tools.

The Power Mac G5 will be available in build-to-order configurations through the Apple Store® (http://www.apple.com/). Options include up to 8GB of RAM, 250GB hard drives, Combo drive, graphics cards (NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200, ATI Radeon 9600, ATI Radeon 9800), AirPort Extreme Card, Bluetooth module and an Apple Fibre Channel PCI Card.

More pictures can be found below this post.

[dang]

One please.

[Ioman]

I will take 5.

That 1GHz FSB is a total shocker to me. This could be a serious gaming machine if only there were games for it!!

[Gatesov]

All very impressive but it is still a mac....

[questionlp]

mmm.... PCI-X, HyperTransport, very fast FSB and memory controller, Serial ATA... the system really has a lot of potential! I wouldn't mind a dual 1.8GHz system :D

[Ioman]

Front of the case:

[Ioman]

Front at an angle:

[Ioman]

Inside the case with cover open:

[Ioman]

Side of the case with cover closed:

[Ioman]

Comparing the inside managment versus a typical PC. Notice how organized everything is:

[Archon]

how quaint

I'll take this instead ;)

[questionlp]

I think case design and layout has always been one of Apple's strengths. I like the way the G3/G4 tower systems have a motherboard that is on a hinged door for easy access to memory and AGP/PCI slots.

Also, if you have ever looked at an open G4 tower (I don't know about the newer ones) but you don't see cables and wires strewn about, instead everything is fairly well laid out and cables are routed very carefully.

The G4 Cube may not have been Apple's best example of elegant layout, but I think it's more due to the size constraints of the Cube and how everything is fitted together than sloppy design.

Dell has tried to mimic the idea of cases that open up like a book, but the quality is really cheap, the cabling is a huge mess (some cables are too short and are poorly routed), flimsy rails and drive cages, etc.

[neuroking]

Damn.... the thing that got me was that benchmarking page. usually they just run a SPECint (or whatever it is) and some predetermined set of photoshop filters. This looks much better... And the FSB. Damn!

Brandon

[dang]

One Please

[triton]

Powerbook G5 please!

[questionlp]

I may be a little while (couple of months, maybe) until we will see a mobile version of the G5 processor... unless if IBM releases a version that doesn't soak up quite as much power as it does now.

[Ioman]

Originally posted by questionlp
I may be a little while (couple of months, maybe) until we will see a mobile version of the G5 processor... unless if IBM releases a version that doesn't soak up quite as much power as it does now.

Well the PowerMac is not due out until August yet it was just announced. Rumor has it the Powerbook G5 will be announced this week as well....maybe tomorrow!?

I am glad to see that Apple has not stuck with Motorola in the CPU department. IBM makes some great processors.

[vladmin]

well it sure is perdy and kinda reasonably priced for a mac... let's all get ready for another round of apple snobbitude once they hit the market.

[questionlp]

OT:
Is everyone in a Street Fighter avatar mood? ;)

[ECA]

NOW this is a fine set up.
and if ya dont like OS-X, load up linux.
If I had the money, I would do it.
Consider that they have Finally standardized the Mac, to the current PC craze.
Now for the HARD part. DRIVERS.
anyone into makeing Games for it yet. I think Linux has more games then Mac does.

[Ioman]

Originally posted by ECA
NOW this is a fine set up.
and if ya dont like OS-X, load up linux.
If I had the money, I would do it.
Consider that they have Finally standardized the Mac, to the current PC craze.
Now for the HARD part. DRIVERS.
anyone into makeing Games for it yet. I think Linux has more games then Mac does.

I bet that Doom 3 will be compatible with this system. Slap in a better video card (9600 PRO yucky) like a 9800 PRO and this system would probably beat 99% of the best performing home PC's on the market. In fact if they made games for the Mac, I would switch over in a heart beat...


Wait a minute, I hardly ever play games...why and I still on the PC then!? Oh yeah, cheaper hardware, and more warez hehe.. J/K on the warez.

[ECA]

To think, that the MAC started totally propritary(sp).
Finally they are meeting the market.
NOW if they would drop there price to be Almost compatitive(25% straight to apple after cost) they could saturate the market, Quick.
they have a Solid environment, always have. But can you see Linux on that Dual pro, 2ghz...WOW. Forget 4ghz intell, this would compare to a 5+ghz intell.

[Archon]

Its still just a mac. and macs suck

As for the discussion that "its s0 uBer fast!" all that means is that it sucks faster than previous macs.

[ECA]

Originally posted by Archon
Its still just a mac. and macs suck

As for the discussion that "its s0 uBer fast!" all that means is that it sucks faster than previous macs.


Then explain SUCK to me.
How about the BSOD. LOST information from recovery. A file system you CANT backup? WINDOWS could be ALOT better, but they DONT want to make it so. Intell coudl (and they wanted to) make an even Better CPU, MS said NO.

Wouldnt it be nice if ALL the driver you installed, as upgrades, extras, and driver you installed from progs, went into a OPEN DIR that could be backed up with OUT Backing up ALL of windows. This way, you could BU your system and not worry alot about the OS. Backup the OS and not worry about the progs adding 2gig to the backup for drivers, DLL, and hardware.
HOW about system diag's that WORK. Something that can look at the REG, and not confuse you to death. Or will even FIX it. NOT saying that Mac has these either. But at least you can configure them into it, sence OS X is Linux based.

STILL loved my AMIGA. and STILL DO.

[dang]

With Panther and this box then I definitely want my next box to be mac. Next box in the sense of not upgrading my current box, but actually plopping down cash. I can easily see myself buying a new g5 powermac when they come out.

and, fyi, they do make games for the mac. In most cases, the more popular games do get ported over to mac. Maybe not released the same time as the pc games though.

[ECA]

Originally posted by dang
With Panther and this box then I definitely want my next box to be mac. Next box in the sense of not upgrading my current box, but actually plopping down cash. I can easily see myself buying a new g5 powermac when they come out.

and, fyi, they do make games for the mac. In most cases, the more popular games do get ported over to mac. Maybe not released the same time as the pc games though.

This can be good, as ONLY the #1 games get ported after a year. THEn you know its decent to play. NOT moo3, RTCW, or many others. and the bugs are worked out.

[vladmin]

Originally posted by Archon
Its still just a mac. and macs suck

As for the discussion that "its s0 uBer fast!" all that means is that it sucks faster than previous macs.

hahaha! sucks faster, that's funny... never thought of looking at it that way.

[llbbl]

OS X is much better than the previous versions. It is certainly on par with XP. Apple has better users services than windows atm (iLife). This system is a godsend to all Mac users. It's about time they released a major upgrade to the processing power.

I'm not uptodate on release information for Intel and AMD. What is the fastest processor said to be released by August of this year? How will a dual processor version compare to this Mac?

My estimation is that they would need more than 2x the speed using x86 architecture. That means a dual 4 GHz machine by the end of the year, assuming that motherboard specfications remain the same. I guess the real kicker is that Apple has upgraded the FSB and RAM to something 1/2 way decent now. =)

Bottom line [way things stand now]; This is going to be the best workstation for anything that will run on it!

[neuroking]

LOL, don't get too offended Mac ppl. Criticism is coming from someone stuck in the minidisc era. ;) And I think the last time I saw the "bomb" message on a mac was what? 5 years ago? On OS 8.2. Last BSOD I saw was 3 months ago. WinXP. Corrupted reg. Full system clean install required.

And sure more games come out for windows. But only the ones most ppl care about end up on the mac. Macs are about usability. I switched from Mac to PC and I can say that personally, I feel like it takes about 5 times as long to do anything on a pc. I did it mostly to get a machine that would run a good linux distro for my cs classes, and got stuck on windows for the games. Hell, I may save up a little onger and get a mac AND pc, and just hook up the pc to my tv for games.

I dunno, my $.02
Brandon

[ECA]

ONLY thing I see going, in the long run, for the Intell machine is the games.
But windows has even Stated, that its not the games they wanted to make WINDOWS for. This is one of the reasons DirectX sucks so much. Windows wasnt designed for games. And you can see it.
Windows does NOT want to release there code, or the directX information to make proper programs for there Os. They write there code to protect there Os from anyone making a good program. MS, pays companies to make progs that work correctly, as well as buying the company, and releaseing the progs(with fixes) to work, and then they make there OWN progs.
If you look at the progs they have made, its mostly business software, previously owned(by others) software they have purchased and modified to work, and progs they have Paid to have made, All under the MS logo.
This is a company that wants Total control over there Os. And then we wonder Why they are having problems with the Government, states, Other governments, and alot of business's are getting pissed at MS. Many are switching, and I think MAC could swipe it away, if MS isnt careful.

[Archon]

I think the G5 will do wonders for Apple. It will raise their market share from 2% to 3%.

Dont get me started, mp3 boy, Im not alone in my mac hatred argument.

[ECA]

If ya really want to know. I didnt like mac.
Until they went towards the Linux base.
The Amiga I had was Also Linux based. And it was awesome.
and Intell aint got the idea (until recently) that Power is NOT in the ghz. Its in the piplines and the hardware config.

[nedlyj]

And I thought most intelligent life forms had given up the Mac vs PC debate years ago.

They are different machines which suit different purposes. It is only their marketers who would have you believe that either is "better" in everything than the other.

I've worked on everything, Unix, Linux, VAX, DEC, PC, Mac,... - and they all have had their place.

In my line of work if I could afford to switch to a Mac for my main design workstation I'd do it in a heartbeat. But I can't - I can't afford $5000 worth of software replacement along with $5000 for a workstation and peripherals. So, I keep spending $1-2K each year on PC enhancements and upgrades. The economics of life.

But I also prefer many PC implementations of tools I use every day too. And for system and global scripting capabilities I prefer Unix. In reality, the "best" environment would be one with a Mac, a PC and a Sun. But, who can afford that? Plus, I have a wife who works at home and two kids with different computer needs (one with special needs and a touchscreen) so I have 4 computers in the house. There's only one choice for that environment: PCs.

There are lots of circumstances that make one platform preferable to another - but those don't apply globally.

How anyone who is either a techno-geek, a software geek, or a creative geek could "hate" a Mac is beyond me at this point. That leaves only "gaming-geek", and if that's the case then - so what? I wouldn't spend thousands of dollars just to sit around and play games anyway. Maybe it's time to get out of the house for awhile...

-n

[neuroking]

Originally posted by Archon
I think the G5 will do wonders for Apple. It will raise their market share from 2% to 3%.

Dont get me started, mp3 boy, Im not alone in my mac hatred argument.

Well, it does look like a giant next to that .5% market share for MDs. Hell, ppl are choosing those mini-CDRs over em.

Yeah, alot of ppl hate macs. No idea why, besides the whining about games and price. I've always liked them, ever since high school. And OSX, all versions, is just simply a more beautiful environment to work in. Need I remind ppl we are at DESIGN Technica, where aesthetics do count over which mobo/kernel optimization/instruction set when there isn't a generational gap...? I can understand bashing the old hardware architecture, but things have evened up more.

And one of the things about Macs that PCs totally lack is the excitement of an annoucement. Hell, i haven't owned a Mac in about 3 years, and I still try to catch any keynotes that are webcasted. It's the big surprises that make it fun. Mac users are a whole subculture. Windows users are just basically everybody else. There's nothing interesting about everybody else.

But then again, that's just me. And I like throwing sporks at oncoming motorists, so go figure.

Brandon

[Ioman]

Originally posted by nedlyj
And I thought most intelligent life forms had given up the Mac vs PC debate years ago.

They are different machines which suit different purposes. It is only their marketers who would have you believe that either is "better" in everything than the other.

I've worked on everything, Unix, Linux, VAX, DEC, PC, Mac,... - and they all have had their place.

In my line of work if I could afford to switch to a Mac for my main design workstation I'd do it in a heartbeat. But I can't - I can't afford $5000 worth of software replacement along with $5000 for a workstation and peripherals. So, I keep spending $1-2K each year on PC enhancements and upgrades. The economics of life.

But I also prefer many PC implementations of tools I use every day too. And for system and global scripting capabilities I prefer Unix. In reality, the "best" environment would be one with a Mac, a PC and a Sun. But, who can afford that? Plus, I have a wife who works at home and two kids with different computer needs (one with special needs and a touchscreen) so I have 4 computers in the house. There's only one choice for that environment: PCs.

There are lots of circumstances that make one platform preferable to another - but those don't apply globally.

How anyone who is either a techno-geek, a software geek, or a creative geek could "hate" a Mac is beyond me at this point. That leaves only "gaming-geek", and if that's the case then - so what? I wouldn't spend thousands of dollars just to sit around and play games anyway. Maybe it's time to get out of the house for awhile...

-n


The sad part of the whole Apple versus PC debate is that while people are using the Mac for different functions than a PC, there is absolutely no reason whatsoever that Apple has to seperate themselves from the same thriving market that PC users are a part of. The simple reason why Mac adoption is slow, is because of the lack of software development.

If Apple threw in an ATI Radeon 9800PRO and announced that all the computer developers will start making games for the Apple then people would jump over in a heart beat. Games drive the PC industry and Apple has blown it in that department. The operating system and hardware in Apple computers are fine, they NEED to get more developers.

Hell, I LOVE the new G5 system, but if I bought one what would I use it for? Solitaire and Photoshop?

Just something to think about. I have an iMac 17" downstairs in a box. What would I use it for??

[ECA]

Originally posted by Ioman



The sad part of the whole Apple versus PC debate is that while people are using the Mac for different functions than a PC, there is absolutely no reason whatsoever that Apple has to seperate themselves from the same thriving market that PC users are a part of. The simple reason why Mac adoption is slow, is because of the lack of software development.

If Apple threw in an ATI Radeon 9800PRO and announced that all the computer developers will start making games for the Apple then people would jump over in a heart beat. Games drive the PC industry and Apple has blown it in that department. The operating system and hardware in Apple computers are fine, they NEED to get more developers.

Hell, I LOVE the new G5 system, but if I bought one what would I use it for? Solitaire and Photoshop?

Just something to think about. I have an iMac 17" downstairs in a box. What would I use it for??

If it still has the OS on it, send it to me, I got some kids that would like it.
What interface is on it.
ALSO, the mac LAST ALOT longer then the Intell market does.

[neuroking]

Originally posted by Ioman



The sad part of the whole Apple versus PC debate is that while people are using the Mac for different functions than a PC, there is absolutely no reason whatsoever that Apple has to seperate themselves from the same thriving market that PC users are a part of. The simple reason why Mac adoption is slow, is because of the lack of software development.

If Apple threw in an ATI Radeon 9800PRO and announced that all the computer developers will start making games for the Apple then people would jump over in a heart beat. Games drive the PC industry and Apple has blown it in that department. The operating system and hardware in Apple computers are fine, they NEED to get more developers.

Hell, I LOVE the new G5 system, but if I bought one what would I use it for? Solitaire and Photoshop?

Just something to think about. I have an iMac 17" downstairs in a box. What would I use it for??

Actually, I would argue that either capture the gaming industry OR big business. Business accounts for the greater volume of computers, easily. And I think Apple HAS to go after business, since Macs have been getting phased out in the classroom. Alot of mac purchases are based on 'buying the kid a school computer', and later those kids being advocates and selling htem through their enthusiasm. Without that, they are in for a rough ride in 5-10 years. They need to make some cheap clients with zippy WinXP emulation (so businesses can use existing software), train a horde of custom software consultants to transition entire companies to macs, and give some deep corporate discounts.

I think since Apple is as much a software company as a hardware company, if not more, they need to start using that talent to rope in the titles released on PCs. If they company is turning a nice profit in other ways, they can afford a minor hit by offering conversion services for a minimal cost.

And that would make $.04 total now...

Brandon

[dang]

Some great points by everyone. Good reads.
My 1 cent..

Apple needs to get off their butt, lower their prices, push and offer incentives to developers and sell a PC version of OS X (it could even be limited somehow to just tease people to move over to the mac hardware.) They need to start thinking of winning people over then just by releasing new hardware.

I dont know anyone who is going to spend $3k on a non-gaming machine for home. People spending $3k on a PC machine are the hardcore gamers. A typical user is going to be buying that Dell for $400-$800 bucks. They need a decent, budget mac that compares equally to those OEM budge machines.

I really like mac. I learned C on a mac back at UW before MS bought out the CS department. I have owned 2 macs in the past. I really enjoyed using them. In fact, that's the difference between my own mac experience and pc experience. I actually enjoyed using a mac. I dont enjoy using a PC, I just use a PC to do the crap that needs to get done.

Another thing needed on the Mac platform is more independent developers creating cool stuff. For example, I love UltraEdit on windows. I know there are some cool stuff for the mac but their needs to be more of it. More choices.

I agree with the statement of different machines different purposes, but many have overlapping purposes as well. The only thing making them different is the amount of developer support for Home users. As for server/farm systems, then obviously there are much better choices with solid facts backing them up.

[ECA]

Agree with alot of this.(what has been said.)

But another thing is that you can install linux on this Dual proc system. And being around $3k, with dual proc and linux is a wonderful server.
Dual proc, with pipelines for everything.
??? do we still have to deal with IRQ's?? I dont know, I dont think we do with Mac.

[Santaduck]

sheee once the G5 based XServe rackmount server comes out, I have a big project that we're gonna use it for a Linux box... but then again, OS X is bsd-UNIX, and with the Panther version of OS X I guess I really don't need to use Linux at all, and stick w/OS X... that way I don't need a superLinuxhead to plug all the holes.



oh, and btw, from the clantran forums, I posted this about the benchmark test, when some complaints arose initially about the way the G5 vs super dell comparison was made:

Greg Joswiak, vice president of hardware product marketing at Apple, in a phone interview today, defended Apple's performance claims for its upcoming Power Mac G5, after they came under fire in the wake of yesterday's announcement. Read on for the details.



Joswiak went over the points in turn, but first said that they set out from the beginning to do a fair and even comparison, which is why they used an independent lab and provided full disclosure of the methods used in the tests, which would be "a silly way to do things" if Apple were intending to be deceptive.

He said Veritest used gcc for both platforms, instead of Intel's compiler, simply because the benchmarks measure two things at the same time: compiler, and hardware. To test the hardware alone, you must normalize the compiler out of the equation -- using the same version and similar settings -- and, if anything, Joswiak said, gcc has been available on the Intel platform for a lot longer and is more optimized for Intel than for PowerPC.

He conceded readily that the Dell numbers would be higher with the Intel compiler, but that the Apple numbers could be higher with a different compiler too.

Joswiak added that in the Intel modifications for the tests, they chose the option that provided higher scores for the Intel machine, not lower. The scores were higher under Linux than under Windows, and in the rate test, the scores were higher with hyperthreading disabled than enabled. He also said they would be happy to do the tests on Windows and with hyperthreading enabled, if people wanted it, as it would only make the G5 look better.

In the G5 modifications, they were made because shipping systems will have those options available. For example, memory read bypass was turned on, for even though it is not on by default in the tested prototypes, it will be on by default for the shipping systems. Software-based prefetching was turned off and a high-performance malloc was used because those options will be available on the shipping systems (Joswiak did not know whether this malloc, which is faster but less memory efficient, will be the default in the shipping systems).

As to not using SSE2, Joswiak said they enabled the correct flags for it, as documented on the gcc web site, so that SSE2 was enabled (the Veritest report lists the options used for each test, which appears to include the appropriate flags).

for more, read on at the slashdot.org website:
http://apple.slashdot.org/apple/03/06/24/2154256.shtml?tid=126&tid=181 it has more arguments on both sides of the equation.