Talk Back: Copying a song, go to jail

[dang]

Checkout our latest Talk Back: Copying a song, go to jail (http://news.designtechnica.com/talkback23.html)

[Ioman]

I am going to play devils advocate here and ask this. If copying copyrighted material is highly illegal, why do CD/DVD writing software programs emphasize digital audio extraction or converting MP3's to CD audio format?

Programs like DVD X Copy make exact duplicates or DVD movies, do they really believe people are backing up their movies? This is called blind reality in my opinion.

[questionlp]

I'm not a freeloader when it comes to "pirating" movies, music or software, but I do think that we should have the ability to make a backup copy of a CD or movie for personal and private use and it should not be distributed.

I agree that justifying downloading movies and music off of "pirate" and P2P sites that are not from the copyright holders themselves by saying "I only wanted this one song, the rest of the CD blows" or "the movie wasn't good". Well, if it was bad in the first place, why do you want to download it and watch it?

What I do download are songs and videos available directly off of the artist's website or through a site that the artists and/or copyright holders say it's okay (like Archive.org's live audio recording library).

Of course, I'm no friend of the MPAA nor the RIAA... or even copy-protection crap. And yes, I am also contributing to their decline in sales because: 1) I don't like the 99% of the crap that they pump out, 2) I can't afford $14+ a CD and 3) watching a movie in a theater is both good (large screen and good audio quality, most of the time) and bad (****ers that talk on their cell phone, play games on their PDAs or work on their laptops). Guess what? The last time I was at the theatres, it was LOTR:The Two Towers, two times before that was ST:Nemesis and LOTR:FOTR. I won't be going back until LOTR:ROTK and probably never again after that.

[dang]

I think they are focusing on the wrong people when it comes to going after the downloaders. They aren't making a profit out of it. The real people they should be focusing on are the people out on the street selling copies of music and movies for $5 - $10.

[Porsche911]

CD and DVD recorder manufacturers in my opinion are taking advantage of the "loose" laws that govern recording media. There is something weird going on with all of this too. The RIAA from what I know, has not gone after any and these CD writer manufacturers, just the downloaders. Sony for instance sells DVD and CD writers but also sits on the RIAA's board correct?


They actually did try to go after the CD and DVD recorder manufacturers. However it was quickly shot down.

I still think most of their money is going to be lost to the actual people selling pirated music on the streets. Not just here in the states but abroad as well. There are HUGE markets for pirated music in Asia alone. When I was in Laos, you couldnt buy a legitament copy of music if you wanted to. Everything at the markets/stores were pirated.

They could fix, temporarily at least, by having all the labels secure the CD's you purchase so that you can't rip them. That would deter most of the average users who wouldnt be smart enough or patient enough to try to grap the audio from the sound card through a recorder.

Some of the labels have tried this, and have successfully alienated most of the fans of that group due to amount of problems with secured discs.

Labels are already making a killing off CD's ($18 for a CD! Prices have gone UP over the years, not down like most other products.)

I think best option is this: Make all manufactured CDs secured. Give some type of unique code for each CD someone buys. The cd's are not playable on a computer. If you want media for your comp, then go to the lables site, enter in the code for your CD (remember, it's unique to you, not everyone else that bought that cd). Once it's validated, you can then download the complete album to your comp for a very cheap price (like $2 or something.) Those clips will be tied to your comp through DRM. If you delete them, or get a new comp, you have to pay the $2 again.

[Digital Wanksta]

Who all has completly stopped downloading music/movies?

[Cloud]

Not I said the fly. I think the RIAA is going to push this enforcement until we are all scared to touch anything music related.

[Unregistered]

Originally posted by Digital Wanksta
Who all has completly stopped downloading music/movies?
Ever since moving into university housing and using the provided internet access, I can honestly say that I no longer use ANY P2P networks(to get copyrighted content). My university is always updating their packetshaper and block out anything that can be used for file trading(Including bittorrent, but that mess is an entirely different story).
As a result, I subscribe to Rhapsody and rent DVD's from NetFlix and I'm satisfied for the most part. The last movie I went to....Austin Powers 3! Most of the movies that are released now aren't worth $10 a person and the $5 drinks with $5 bag or popcorn is absurd. I'm a patient person and when something is released that I want to see/hear, I either add it to my rental queue or find it on Rhapsody (or just drop the issue completely if I can't find it).

Back to the point, I'm still adamantly opposed to the RIAA because of their structure. I realize they treat their artists like crap and rape their consumers while calling them criminals, but the way they function effectively block out independent artists. For example, try and go to a mall and find a Jibe CD, they are a local band from Dallas but have been touring and played on radio stations (including ClearChannel) nationwide. I was told that because they aren't signed with a major label they won't carry them (Sam Goody, Warehouse Music, <forgot other store>). Some argue that this "if they're not going to sign with the big guys, that's their problem, they just won't make it" is natural, it's NOT! Music stores used to carry a wide variety of music but now exclusive contracts and the simple size of these record companies make it easier for these stores to just order their supply from one provider instead of seeking out smaller labels wanting to get some shelf space. Don't try the line "if people want something else, they'll find it" because you can not convince me that an average mallrat (definately not me, I was only there for a Summation training class) knows (or cares to find) where to get local music, because they don't/won't.

Anyways, I'll sum up my position,
1)Yes I have an MP3 collection, although it hasn't had additions in years,
2)No I don't listen to it anymore,why? Because I listen to Rhapsody or the radio, and why haven't I deleted it? Because I'm a data packrat, same reason someone would ever want to download a movie off the net even if it held no intrinsic value to them.
3)Will I start downloading again when I get a commercial net connection? Maybe, maybe not, I tend to buy CD's based on the criteria of
a)How many songs do I like off the CD,
b)Is it worth $xx.xx for those songs
If my answer to B is no and A is only 1 song, I very well may download the song and purchase a copy of(that one song) when I have the opportunity to, if I can't find it individually sold, well, i just keep an eye out. For the most part, I'll loose interest after hearing it twice and put it away, (I don't make mix CD's, I mainly listen to the radio in the car). I've heard bands complain about individual track downloads destroying their creative ability to assemble compilations, well, that's been abused (1-3 good songs, the rest being filler) and technological advances have made single-track distribution possible, welcome to the 21st century. If you want to assemble an album, show the listener your preferred order to listen to them in and maybe if they think it's worth it, they'll buy them all.

And finally a last note: Indie bands DO have higher priority in my book, they are TRYING to make it and have resisted the temptation of "selling out" thus my criteria doesn't really apply, if they've produced a song I like, even if the rest is filler, I'll try and locate a copy of their CD to purchase, because to them,every sale counts.

[lilbudda]

Copying copyrighted material is NOT illegal. Read the laws. You have the right to make back ups of your media. You do NOT have the right to sell those backups however. We need to educate the public or else everyone is going to roll over and get screwed by the RIAA and the MPAA.

I think the statement about targeting the wrong people is true. The people that are truely pirates need to be targeted. When I was in Mexico (or just about any flea market around here) you could find people selling pirated music all the time.

Business models that include beating up your customer base will never work.

Could it possibly be that the reason your sales are down is because we don't have enough money anymore to buy your lousy crap?

[dang]

CD and DVD recorder manufacturers in my opinion are taking advantage of the "loose" laws that govern recording media. There is something weird going on with all of this too. The RIAA from what I know, has not gone after any and these CD writer manufacturers, just the downloaders. Sony for instance sells DVD and CD writers but also sits on the RIAA's board correct?


They actually did try to go after the CD and DVD recorder manufacturers. However it was quickly shot down.

I still think most of their money is going to be lost to the actual people selling pirated music on the streets. Not just here in the states but abroad as well. There are HUGE markets for pirated music in Asia alone. When I was in Laos, you couldnt buy a legitament copy of music if you wanted to. Everything at the markets/stores were pirated.

They could fix, temporarily at least, by having all the labels secure the CD's you purchase so that you can't rip them. That would deter most of the average users who wouldnt be smart enough or patient enough to try to grap the audio from the sound card through a recorder.

Some of the labels have tried this, and have successfully alienated most of the fans of that group due to amount of problems with secured discs.

Labels are already making a killing off CD's ($18 for a CD! Prices have gone UP over the years, not down like most other products.)

I think best option is this: Make all manufactured CDs secured. Give some type of unique code for each CD someone buys. The cd's are not playable on a computer. If you want media for your comp, then go to the lables site, enter in the code for your CD (remember, it's unique to you, not everyone else that bought that cd). Once it's validated, you can then download the complete album to your comp for a very cheap price (like $2 or something.) Those clips will be tied to your comp through DRM. If you delete them, or get a new comp, you have to pay the $2 again.

But then again, if they just went after the real piraters, I think everything would be honkey dorey.

[Shniks]

You know whats so funny? If making copies of songs and movies is illegal, then why not sue the public libraries? They lend out movies and books all the time. Do the authors or publishers get compensated? NO... I dont know why they dont use this argument to argue their case.

RIAA will go down. They are fighting a losing battle...

[techfreak]

Not necessarily. I don't even think its a matter of whoes right and whoes wrong, it is a matter of who has the deepest pockets. Unless a group of people file a class action suit against the RIAA, it will be tough to beat them. Individually we will lose which sucks.

[Cloud]

The RIAA can kiss my A$$. They are a bunch of bullys that need to lower prices, support more bands and figure out how to run a business. They act like some mob trying to control the import of music. This is not DeBeers we are talking about, but music. GRRRRR they better lose one of these cases!!

[ECA]

Senerio:
1% of the people cause most of the problems(in the US).
1% of those that get copies make most of the pirated copies for sale for (maybe) 20% of the people that purchase a REAL copy. Most persons only copy for personal use, and then run out of space on there system and erase what they dont want.
Copying music has been around sence the LP(records, Vynl) and was fairly expensive, then came tape, and got ALOT cheaper.
In other countries, it is VERY rampant for 2 reasons.
1..Let the buyer beware. Crap is crap, quality sucks.
2. US record companies have NO Control out side the US, and Europe(very little in Europe).

What is fostering the coping of there products. GREED.
NOT from the copiers(mostly) but from the recording companies. They try to justify raiseing prices due to pirates, and they have the numbers to prove it(LOL). Ask an alcoholic how much booze he has stashed, think you will get the truth?
In truth, an artist gets maybe 1-5% of the selling price.
The recording company gets 2/3's the selling cost(about $10).
And the seller gets the rest($5).
Only problem with this is that this is happening all over the US. Think about the price of a Car. 90% is made in other counties for 1/10th-1/100 of the cost in the US and we pay FULL us prices for it. ALL the parts are sent to the US, and put together and you pay $20k for a New car that was made for less then $5k from other countries.
ONLY way to stop this? STOP buying stuff. Esp, the stuff you DONT need. Keyword is NEED. These companies will Keep feeding us crap, and cheap items as long as there is someone to PAY for it. And thats YOU.
The RIAA is pointing a finger at Pirates, and copiers for 1 reason, they WANT money. THEY think they should be selling more and more, even when they raise the price. But it is persons gettting tired of paying thru the nose for CRAP. 90% of CD's are still only STEREO, they need newer equipment, and better encoding to make better sound and they DONT want to do this.

One last comment.
have you EVER seen an independant distribution from another country EVER come to the US. ANY THING that didnt go thru the RIAA and others.

[Shniks]

Hmm... I totally agree with your comments especially 'crap is crap'. These people have one good song on their CD and then want us to buy the entire CD for 18 dollars. YEAH right. In this e-age I prefer the concept of itunes store and buymusic.com store to download individual songs. And if the RIAA dont like us buying individual songs they can kiss my e-ass.

[Archon]

e-xcellent.

[ECA]

In the long run, paying $1 per song isnt that bad. Most albums only carry 8-12 songs depending on length. About $12 to get an album you can burn and keep.
I would prefer the better quality recordings, insted of MP3.