Our Next President

[llbbl]

Who are you going to vote for?

:poke :confused:

[llbbl]

lol ...

http://www.johnkerryisadouchebagbutimvotingforhimanyway.c om/

[ladydorkness]

I'm not sure. My family is strictly Democrat, but when I have time I just try to decide who would just be a better president... Have to find out where I can vote in this area though. :P

[ladydorkness]

But I haven't even had time to watch the debates at all, so I might not even vote this year. Don't want to go blindly..

[dang]

better to vote for something then nothing.

[Ioman]

better to vote for something then nothing.

And when you don't vote, you really are, you just arent choosing what you vote for.

[ladydorkness]

better to vote for something then nothing.

But it's better to vote for nothing than to vote for the wrong thing. ;)

[senoryoshio]

So you don't think you can research and decide within the three months remaining?

[mikeywalnutz]

This election, it's not about who's a better candidate. This election is about who's going to suck less. You cannot suck anymore than Bush and Cheney.

[ladydorkness]

This election, it's not about who's a better candidate. This election is about who's going to suck less. You cannot suck anymore than Bush and Cheney.

Very true. I just have to see now where all the voting places are around here. Unless you can do it online.

[llbbl]

HAHAHAHAH watch this video !!!!

http://www.jibjab.com/

[llbbl]

Very true. I just have to see now where all the voting places are around here. Unless you can do it online.

Log on to state website . Find the place where it lists all the people who are in charge of the ballots for each county .. then contact them and verify that you are registered to vote. You might have 2 fill out a form again .. =(

[ECA]

better to vote for something then nothing.

NO,
I want a button that says "NONE OF THE ABOVE"

[ladydorkness]

Log on to state website . Find the place where it lists all the people who are in charge of the ballots for each county .. then contact them and verify that you are registered to vote. You might have 2 fill out a form again .. =(

I'm pretty sure I'm registered, I've done it twice now I think.

[llbbl]

NO,
I want a button that says "NONE OF THE ABOVE"

Happy? I changed it for you =p

[ECA]

Close, but can you get it on the ballet??

[senoryoshio]

Whats a ballet got to do with anything, we talkin' elections, not dancing

[senoryoshio]

Though maybe the whole thing should be decided by a dance-off

[llbbl]

Time for a Hoe down! ..

[nightowl]

I'm voting for Kerry this time around. I voted for Bush last time. I dont plan to be a sucker twice. They are a real cold bunch. And I am a Republican.

[nightowl]

HAHAHAHAH watch this video !!!!

http://www.jibjab.com/


LMAO........Jim :vivi

[llbbl]

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- An unnamed official in the Bush Administration leaked a short list of the top reasons why George Bush has called for a voyage to Mars. Stung by criticism from those who object to spending huge many billions for Mars when the nation is already strapped by massive debt from the Iraqi war, President Bush allegedly felt that it is time to be more forthcoming about the real reasons behind the mission to Mars, which, he believes, will be "well accepted" by the public once they learn the truth.

According to the leaked document, the top 10 reasons for going to Mars, in reverse order, are:

10. $87 billion extra debt for Iraq just isn't enough spending to provide job security for needy bankers lending money to the US.

9. A $500 billion deficit in one year might not be enough to earn a permanent entry in the Guinness Book of World Records.

8. Donald Rumsfeld has to be put somewhere. Maybe Howard Dean, too.

7. If there's life on Mars, there might be oil, and if there's oil, it's going to be ours--with the help of Haliburton.

6. Vast natural resources could be ours: Arizona is running low on sand and rocks.

5. New study reveals: Women are actually from Mars, not Venus.

4. Good place to find more aliens in need of amnesty and jobs.

3. Intelligence confirms: Saddam's weapons of mass destruction are hidden on Mars.

2. Iraq was not enough: Mars is a whole new planet to bomb!

1. Broadcasts from Mars intercepted--it's Osama!


Jeff Lindsay, Jan. 26, 2004


http://www.jefflindsay.com/snippets/mars.shtml

[llbbl]

One thing Bush is gud at is getting us into debt.


http://zfacts.com/p/318.html

http://www.federalbudget.com/

Lets elect him so he can get us 10 Trillion in the hole!

[llbbl]

Here is another good link.

http://www.die.net/musings/national_debt/

[llbbl]

http://www.littlepiggy.net/republicanhumor/index.php

lol gud stuff!

[Archon]

I am voting for Bush. :P

[llbbl]

I like a president who can make intelligent decisions ...

for instance going to War with Iraq wasn't a good decision

[ECA]

there were BETTER options...

IMHO, I wont vote for someone unless THEY HAVE BEEN POOR... And had to fight and struggle to GET where they ARE.
NOT these that have BOUGHT there way into a position.
Someone who KNOWS what money is WORTH.

[llbbl]

On the same side of the coin there are very few poor people in america compared with the rest of the world.

[llbbl]

Rich or Poor it shouldn't matter as long as they can make an informed decision to better our nation and the world, not whatever moronic decision Bush thought up for going to War.

[ECA]

From the Bureau of labor and statistics...

59% of those in the US, make min wage or LESS.
I brought this up before.
Even at $6 an hour thats only $12,000 a year, and about $9,000 AFTER taxes.
So what do you consider POOR?

[ECA]

used to be we selected the MOST knowledgeable person...NOW we select the one with the best backing(MONEY). The BEST suckup, brown nose...
What did he REALLY do in Texas? Besides snort up his fathers money. Ruin a company. And start a GREAT idea for education that CANT WORK.

[llbbl]

From the Bureau of labor and statistics...

59% of those in the US, make min wage or LESS.
I brought this up before.
Even at $6 an hour thats only $12,000 a year, and about $9,000 AFTER taxes.
So what do you consider POOR?

You have to read more closely. I didn't say in the US alone. I said compared to other nations worldwide our "poor" are much better off than their "poor".

[llbbl]

" And start a GREAT idea for education that CANT WORK."

I am assuming that you are being sarcastic because it can't be a great idea if it doesn't work. Can you explain more about that? I would like to list more of Bush's failures because he doesn't like to take responsibility for his screw ups. Somehow they get downplayed and he is forgiven at every step of the way. When did we stop holding our president's accountable?

[ECA]

Poor in the US is different from POOR in other countries.
so many of us think that $5 aweek is POOR, but in ALOT of countries thats like us/we making $200-400 aweek.

As for the "NO child left behind" Theory. PBS did a special on it in texas. And the schools are GRADED on bring up ALL students(that signed up) to certain points. And they get minus's for NOT bring ALL up...Problem is seasonal workers, and those that are in transient families. When the family MOVES, or a child quits, or a teen goes to work insted of school, the school is DOCKED for the loss.
They quote 90+% and its REALLY about 60% and VERY little change. The schools have had to do "interesting" paper work to cover there 'backsides' and NOT get docked.

[znaps]

I'm not a US Citizen so I can't vote, but if I did I couldn't vote for Bush. Governments who lie (or mislead, or just screw up the facts..whatever) to the people need to be kicked out at the earliest opportunity, to show the next set of powermongers who get in that they won't get away with it.

So yeah..I'd vote for Kerry, but I wouldn't boast about it either.

The 2 party system is gonna destroy this country.

[llbbl]

You live here thou Znaps?

[ECA]

Agreed, znapps..

Need another party, or abetter way to vote...
I'd like to see EACh state nominate WHO they want, then go to reginal, down to 5 to be chosen from...

AND a button for NONE OF THE ABOVE, would really wet my willie.

[senoryoshio]

Something tempts me to rename the poll "Lesser of two douchebags"

[ECA]

How about 2 hemmorroids clashing..

If either win, it will be a pain in the But.

[znaps]

You live here thou Znaps?

Yep, been here for about 5 years. Only got into politics here after the last election.

[ECA]

See much good about it??

Love to kick EVERY company rep out of the DC area and put a BAN that they cant be within 1000 miles of the place.
Give the EPA some backbone. And able to FINE upto the corp profit level.
Update the WHOLE computer network in the capitals.
Then CLEAN house...

The fed capital was built in a SLUM, originaly. I'd like it to go BACK to that level.

[znaps]

It's a mess, too much money in it. The Reps and Dems are happy that they only have one opponent to look better than every 4 years and want to keep it that way. We need more people to get in at the top without having to suck up to corporate America on the way there...like Arnie did in CA.

[llbbl]

The war is over… Bush doesn’t want to announce it because he wants to get reelected. All this nonsense about what to do in Iraq is just that nonsense ... get the **** out and let them figure it out. We should be working on ways to reduce our dependency of Oil not overthrowing foreign governments to install "Republics" (No way in hell Iraq is a Democracy) that are dependant on our continued support... Oil is going to run out eventually its time to start figuring out another fuel source ... It's called Diversification and right now all our “eggs” are in the Oil & Gas basket.

[ECA]

They want to KEEP the oil, untill they figure out HOW to make us pay for MORE for WATER
Even the NEW Hydrogen system has PELLETS that cant be made ANY OTHER WAY.
They say its to make it SAFER...ItS ALREADY SAFER...as a GAS insted of liquid, if it breaks containment it goes STRAIGHT UP, NO SPILLS, NO burns, NO SPREADING NOTHING..

If we had steam power recondencing POWER, they would HAVE to find away to Charge us for the WATER, and make it NON-usable for other Purposes.

[llbbl]

Yea there are a couple ideas out there that have been put forth. I don't think enough funds or time has been invested into learning more about them. We need an accelerate the process ...

[ECA]

YEP,
How many persons understand... FORD DIDNT MAKE the first car... he made them FASTER/MORE.. He took others ideas and made cars quicker, as they used to only make about 100 ayear.

[llbbl]

I hope the debate goes well for Kerry

[ECA]

It by invite only, and only Kerry and BUSH are invited... wish the others were..

[XPS]

:eww I don't think any vote is wasted by any means. If the third party man is better i don't think it's a wasted vote and everyone is got a vote that counts and if it's not what others think, to bad! If you don't like this post maybe you should think about your vote and maybe one should not do it. After all i don't want my vote voided by someone vote that don't know what there vote is going for. :cheers Go to the bar and have a drink and don't vote. :thumb I'm saying wasted is the wrong word, or are thay saying my vote is wasted if i don't belive in what they do.

[ECA]

There are about 200 ppl running.
But they arent listed in Every state.
They dont RUN with the same MONEY backing them.

EVEN the other top 5, I consider better then these 2.

BUT, the PRES isnt the last word...Its if the congress and Senitors FOLLOW the pres's lead. If they dont follow, NOTHING gets done.

[nightowl]

Kerry won the debate by a landslide. :vivi


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6123733/?GT1=5100

[znaps]

haha, 39% said that Bush won.

Bush may win the election, but anyone who thought he won that debate is deluded.

[ECA]

I want to hear the OTHERS, not these 2.... We already KNOW what they want...

[ECA]

http://www.politics1.com/p2004.htm

http://www.politics1.com/parties.htm
FUN??

[johncee]

If the rich pick the candidates to defend the rich how is this voting? Is this not the history of politicians of all stripes over the last century? Both candidates support wars to the hilt. Kerry says he can be a smarter war president and he is ready for duty. Bush says non stop pre-emptive wars, one war following another. There is very little difference between them. This is why their debates do not resonate. Because they lack any real substance, any real meaningful difference for millions of people. A year after the elections the medical, education, and pension systems will be further eroded or looted.

[znaps]

Yeah, I seriously don't think any of our lives are going to be drastically changed regardless of whether Kerry or Bush is elected. Maybe a little more, or less tax, but it's too hard to tell since politicians never do what they say they're gonna do when it comes to the hard stuff.

[ECA]

WELLL,
compare life of the 40's, 60's 90's with today... house the same.

[llbbl]

:eww I don't think any vote is wasted by any means. If the third party man is better i don't think it's a wasted vote and everyone is got a vote that counts and if it's not what others think, to bad! If you don't like this post maybe you should think about your vote and maybe one should not do it. After all i don't want my vote voided by someone vote that don't know what there vote is going for. :cheers Go to the bar and have a drink and don't vote. :thumb I'm saying wasted is the wrong word, or are thay saying my vote is wasted if i don't belive in what they do.

Two party system has dominated since the birth of the nation, why change now? Only way a third party would work is if you could provide a view point that is sufficiently different than the other two parties and then convince at least 33% of the entire voting populace in your views. It is more likely that a popular leader who is not affiliated with either of the dominate parties decide to run as an independant or create a party that didn't exist before.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesian_presidential_election%2C_2004

Look at what happened in Indonesia. I doubt something like that could happen here.

[llbbl]

Arguements for and against a two party system.


Arguments for and against

The two-party system's defenders argue that

* it produces more stable governance than multiparty systems, because coalition is highly unlikely to occur with two parties dominating.
* it keeps 'undesirable' extremist parties out of power, like the British National Party (which most Brits perceive to be racist) in the United Kingdom.
* uncommon, unconventional ideas and ideologies are non-influential, so policies and governments do not change rapidly; though there is some controversy as to whether this is an advantage. While smaller parties find this exceptionally frustrating, proponents suggest that it enhances stability while allowing for ideas that gain favor to become politically influential.
* it gives a more transparent choice to voters: coalitions are created internally before the election rather than externally after it; it is easier to judge whether an elected government has delivered its promises since it cannot blame component parties' diversity for failure.
* the dynamics of a two party system drives both parties' policies towards the position of a mythical median voter while remaining distinctive enough to motivate their core support.
* and even that two party systems, especially those where power often changes hands, are less prone to revolutions, coups, or civil wars.

Against the argument that the two-party system leads to more stable governance, critics of the two-party system argue variously that:

* stability is not desirable in itself.
* the two-party system produces stable governments, rather than stable democracy, and the latter is what should be desired.
* two-party systems are not intrinsically any more stable, citing such examples of stable democracies as Germany, which has a multi-party system through proportional representation.

The two-party system is also criticised for the following flaws:

* Candidates are motivated to run negative campaigns, pointing out the flaws in the "other person" (usually the leader of the other party) and staking out only those positions that are necessary to differentiate themselves from their primary opponent and not constructive or beneficial to citizens.
* If the opposition party is weak, a dominant-party system may develop.
* Debate in the assembly of the country can often be adversarial and not constructive, sometimes revolving around narrowly perceived policy ideas, rather than larger political issues. Sometimes adversarial politics can lead to the opposition disagreeing with everything the government proposes (and vice versa) for the sake of disagreeing. This can lead to important legislation, especially reforms, being blocked that may be beneficial for the country.
* The system is more easily corrupted by campaign contributions since there are fewer players to donate to.
* In an effort to attract voters, each party will adopt planks of the other party's platform, leading to the appearance in some skeptics' minds of a one-party system. Examples include the American notion of a "Republicrat."

The electoral systems which tend to favour two-party systems (notably the "biggest pile of votes wins" system) are also criticised because:

* Most electors are forced to engage in tactical voting, voting for candidates that may not be their first choice.
* Smaller parties will be unrepresented: they will not receive a number of seats in the country's assembly that reflect the number of votes received for them (and therefore the amount of support for them). Some argue that this is undemocratic, as citizens who vote for small parties should be represented fairly.
* Smaller parties often represent unconventional or 'alternative' (compared to the main parties) ideologies and formulate policy on the basis of this ideology. It can be argued that in a democracy, all ideologies should be fairly represented.
* Larger parties will benefit from being overrepresented; some argue this is undemocratic.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_party_system

I challenge you to make a strong argument for a different system, instead of complaining about my choice of words, try to make a difference.

[senoryoshio]

I'm voting Candidate Zero.
Karate Explosion

[ECA]

Um,
NO.
The 2 party system has only been in use sence the 30's.
when they ran Anti-communist, anti- THIS THAT and the other thing propaganda.

there still are OTHER groups, but as stated unless you can get 33% of the US behind them, you got NOTHING.
the Demo's and Rep's are becoming to elitist, and RICH. and there differences aren't that DIFFERENT. Only the WAY to make changes is different.

[llbbl]

Um,
NO.
The 2 party system has only been in use sence the 30's.
when they ran Anti-communist, anti- THIS THAT and the other thing propaganda.

there still are OTHER groups, but as stated unless you can get 33% of the US behind them, you got NOTHING.
the Demo's and Rep's are becoming to elitist, and RICH. and there differences aren't that DIFFERENT. Only the WAY to make changes is different.

I thought that we always had two parties, but they were called different things like the Tory's and the Wigs. You really want me to dig up American History or you gonna provide evidence of a dominate single party system from 1776 - 1930 ??

Doesn't the US have the highest GNP? What do you expect from the "richest" nation in the world??

I believe that the Democrats to more capabale of change and a third party is not required. Republicans are good for going to war and getting us in debt.

http://ap.grolier.com/staticbp?page=/static/facts_list.html&templatename=/static/ap.html

Ha there is your evidence. Look at the early presidents and it lists their party affiliations.

[znaps]

What good is a two party system when the two parties are so similar? What's the use of voting for someone who is forced to do what big business want, not what the people want? That's the two huge problems here.

[ECA]

Let me do it this way...
Social security, BEFORE they put it into the general fund(because it had extra money) HAd NO Problems...
In the 70's they voted to use it as a slush fund when the Gov ran out of money. This took ALL of them to vote for.
It is NOW $43+trillion dollors in IOU's from our Gov for money they BORROWED.
Wonder why SS is in trouble.....

And if they Privatize it...WOW, READY access to all the money SS pulls in.

[llbbl]

Some candidates are worse than others at playing to corporate interests. Re read that post above for defense of 2 party system. Your arguments against it are also in there.

Our political system is more of a Republic than a Democracy. It's easy to criticize and hard to come up with a better solution. The answer isn't total anarchy or a different modus operandi.

"not what the people want?"

What people? Which ones ?? All of them??? That isn't possible. It is about making the right decisions to win the peace. It is about working together towards a greater good, preservation of the species. It’s about defending the country and our way of life as much as it is about trying to provide other nations and their peoples the same opportunities that we have. Giving all the people what they want is impossible.

Breaking up Al'Queda and going after the people responsible was the right thing to do because our country demanded justice. Invading Iraq was the wrong thing to do. If we invade another country on the same pretense it will be even worse. We shouldn’t be thinking about preemptive strikes against sovereign nations.

Reduce our dependency on foreign oil by developing other fuel sources into viable alternatives. Protect our borders and our children. Find better ways to prevent terrorism acts from taking place. Realign our intelligence agencies to focus on finding the terrorists and their organizations. Utilize strike forces to find these people and break up their groups.

Preserve Peace and Maintain Order

NOT

Invade and Destroy or Genocide

[llbbl]

Let me do it this way...
Social security, BEFORE they put it into the general fund(because it had extra money) HAd NO Problems...
In the 70's they voted to use it as a slush fund when the Gov ran out of money. This took ALL of them to vote for.
It is NOW $43+trillion dollors in IOU's from our Gov for money they BORROWED.
Wonder why SS is in trouble.....

And if they Privatize it...WOW, READY access to all the money SS pulls in.

Privatizing SS is a stupid idea, that won't fix the problem. At least the government is borrowing to pay for other things that hopefully benifit the country and our people. If we privatize it than the people who run it will use it for their own personal gain and to increase the size of fund.

If we overpaid and more money was in the fund than what was being used each year and this extra money was borrowed to pay for other things than they should pay the money back if it didn't go to fund the following things.


* Retirement insurance
* Survivors insurance
* Disability insurance
* Hospital and medical insurance for the aged and disabled
* Black lung benefits
* Supplemental security income (SSI)
* Administration for Children and Families
* Unemployment insurance
* Medical assistance
* Food stamp supplements
* Child support enforcement and establishment of paternity
* Services for maternal and child health and child welfare
* Workers' compensation
* Railroad retirement, sickness, and unemployment insurance
* Veterans benefits
* Federal, State, and local government employees' retirement systems


Once all the money has been accounted for that was borrowed, payed back and used as it was intended; than we need to find a better way to estimate the amount needed each year and adjust the tax as needed. In otherwords an improved SS system yes, but saying a corporation will run it like the red cross is asinine. Department of Social Security maybe ... but definately not the Social Security Coporation.

[spankers]

Here are a couple of interesting links that put the war in Iraq in perspective... particularly the costofwar site. I spent over ten years "Defending the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic". I believe that the military should be used, even preemptively, to prevent damage to the U.S.; but anyone who has spent time in the Middle East knows that Western nations should not engage in military action there except in the short term. Our cultures are diametrically opposed. Bush and friends went into Iraq with no exit strategy and we will pay in spades. The damndest thing is that I am more of a Republican than Democrat. I hate Kerry. But it really chaps my ass raw to see that counter ticking on costofwar...

http://costofwar.com/
http://www.antiwar.com/casualties/

[znaps]

Some candidates are worse than others at playing to corporate interests. Re read that post above for defense of 2 party system. Your arguments against it are also in there.


It's not about which candidate is "worse". When you make that statement isn't it an admission that the system is broken when you're voting for the candidate who is less bad?


Our political system is more of a Republic than a Democracy. It's easy to criticize and hard to come up with a better solution. The answer isn't total anarchy or a different modus operandi.

"not what the people want?"

What people? Which ones ?? All of them??? That isn't possible. It is about making the right decisions to win the peace. It is about working together towards a greater good, preservation of the species. It’s about defending the country and our way of life as much as it is about trying to provide other nations and their peoples the same opportunities that we have. Giving all the people what they want is impossible.



What people? Most of them! The ones who don't stand to make or lose millions of dollars depending on who gets voted in.

[ECA]

True TG,
Ya got it...
Used to be we sent our Best thinkers to Washington, and ALL they got was a Stipend(allowance) for expences, and went back home to work.
but somewhere along the line they started getting WAGES, and could VOTE for a raise.

Washington DC, was a SLUM and swamp when the Congress, and rep's moved it there from Philly. Cheapest piece of land they could use.
Now if you make less then $80k you are poor in that area.
Was supposed to be CHEAP for all those getting Stipends..

Znaps:
WE have the Technology(million dollor man Quote)
To let every man and woman vote electronically. Why dont we make it a REAL democracy.
No need for Rep's or congress.. No extra ppl to run there errands. Look at the savings. Make there biggest threat, being UNEMPLOYED.

[ECA]

I only want 2 new laws...

1. ALL laws are to be brought to the ppl every 20 years, to be re-evaluated for there worthyness.

2. ALL taxes are to be brought to the ppl every 20 years, to be re-evaluated for there worthyness and usefulness.

If you REALLY look at taxes, shipping recieving, wages, electrical, heating, and so forth.
These are all paid by the grocery store on the corner. And then PASSED to the consumer. It adds about 1/3 to the price of every product.
Gas is supposed to be about 51 cents per gallon, in Oregon we figured it was a MINIMUM of 2 million a DAY in taxes.
Ciggarettes, are ALL taxes, profit margin is about 50 cents.
Alcohol is 1/2+...taxes.

So after we pay Taxes out of our checks we continue to pay taxes. Its about 60-70% of our money goes to taxes.

REALLy want to scare the rich folks...
Close the stock market.. Its just a glorified LONG TERM loan. If ya look at it that way, you can see the problems..

[llbbl]

It's not about which candidate is "worse". When you make that statement isn't it an admission that the system is broken when you're voting for the candidate who is less bad?


Worse in this case means in regards to the person’s ability to make decisions based on what is best for the nation not for special interest groups. Some candidates are going to be better at this decision making than others. It requires an educated mind to weigh the facts, ask the right questions and come up with the best course of action.

When you make a decision that is going to cost thousands of US lives and billions of US dollars its important to think the consequences of that decision. Its also important to be sure that your facts for making that decision are sound.

Bush was all like before the war...
"We think they have WMD's and might be harboring terrorists"

Then after we invaded
"It's not my fault it was the intelligence data ... oh ya and remember all the people who died in 9/11"

Well maybe if you weren't so f*ckin eager to invade in the first place you wouldn't be looking for excuses to wage your war.

You should vote for the best candidate. The one who is best able to make the right decisions. If neither person is exactly what you would picture as the best candidate than vote for the one who isn't as bad as the other. Each person has to make the decision on who they think is best able to decide on the best course of action for this country and its people.

The war isn't going to end until we boot Bush outta office. It should have ended a year ago but I think his plan all along was to get reelected on the war ticket. Clinton cheated on his wife, Bush cheated the nation. Which is worse?

[llbbl]

Getting rid of the stock market is retarted ECA. I hope you were joking.

[znaps]

Worse in this case means in regards to the person’s ability to make decisions based on what is best for the nation not for special interest groups. Some candidates are going to be better at this decision making than others. It requires an educated mind to weigh the facts, ask the right questions and come up with the best course of action.

When you make a decision that is going to cost thousands of US lives and billions of US dollars its important to think the consequences of that decision. Its also important to be sure that your facts for making that decision are sound.

Bush was all like before the war...
"We think they have WMD's and might be harboring terrorists"

Then after we invaded
"It's not my fault it was the intelligence data ... oh ya and remember all the people who died in 9/11"

Well maybe if you weren't so f*ckin eager to invade in the first place you wouldn't be looking for excuses to wage your war.

You should vote for the best candidate. The one who is best able to make the right decisions. If neither person is exactly what you would picture as the best candidate than vote for the one who isn't as bad as the other. Each person has to make the decision on who they think is best able to decide on the best course of action for this country and its people.

The war isn't going to end until we boot Bush outta office. It should have ended a year ago but I think his plan all along was to get reelected on the war ticket. Clinton cheated on his wife, Bush cheated the nation. Which is worse?

Oh I agree, none of my points were regarding the war, or were intended to be pro-Bush. I'm certainly not pro-Bush, but not a big fan of Kerry either. If I could vote, I'd vote for Kerry this time, and against him in 4 years, if he got in.

[ECA]

Getting rid of the stock market is retarted ECA. I hope you were joking.

NOT at all.
The stock market would be fine for starting business.

But as long term, its just a loan. It dont work anymore.

when they closed down the Trojan power plant in Oregon, the Elec company wanted to transfer there LOSS, NOT to the stock holders but to the PPl that Buy Electricity(you and me).

How easy is it to dump a company, change its name and Leave the Stock holders in the learch? EASY.

If you are a major company:
How to raise stock prices= raise the price of product/services/fire ppl, lower wages/benefits.

to many ppl think the stock market is for flash buying, get in make money get out... That not how it works.

Stable companies stock dont fluctuate much, they use there profit for R&D, improvements, and bettering the company..
anymore they Raise the stock to get investors and consumers to pay for it, then it goes back to where it WAS. with little or no REAL returns.

If companies didnt worry about STOCK prices, they could use there OWN money to change/upgrade/improve there company.

[llbbl]

It would ruin the economy, plunge us into a recession and depression that would destroy this country. You have got to be out of your mind. Just because it doesn't work perfectly doesn't mean you should kill it outright, get out your box of tools and fix the dern thing.

[ECA]

HOw would it destroy our country?? HOW..

Some company has stretched themselves to the limit, with giving out stocks??
FINE kill Enron. No problem.
Most of these companies you could Fire the WHOLE top end employees, take there wages and PAY off the stocks.
I KNOW it dont work that way, but you could with most companies.

[llbbl]

http://media.ebaumsworld.com/sovereignty.mov

Anyone voting for Bush should watch that video.

[llbbl]

HOw would it destroy our country?? HOW..

Some company has stretched themselves to the limit, with giving out stocks??
FINE kill Enron. No problem.
Most of these companies you could Fire the WHOLE top end employees, take there wages and PAY off the stocks.
I KNOW it dont work that way, but you could with most companies.

Would kill everyone's 401k so no one has money to retire on. Total amount of money companies would loose would be in the trillions. They would fire people and jack up prices to compensate. So now you have a highly unstable economy and unemployment rate is rising drasticially out of control..

[Ioman]

http://media.ebaumsworld.com/sovereignty.mov

Anyone voting for Bush should watch that video.

Bush looks like an idiot there. Good stuff!

[ECA]

Like ...
Duh...

[llbbl]

If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator. - GWB

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0012/18/nd.01.html

Welcome to the new dictatorship....

[Ioman]

I am dissapointed. :(

[nightowl]

- GWB

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0012/18/nd.01.html

Welcome to the new dictatorship....


Yep, its a depressing day, I saw that quote on Farenheit 911, It came right out of his mouth, No wonder Bush doesnt want people to see that movie. And his supporters were dumb enough to dismiss the movie as propoganda.

[znaps]

Maybe he'll do a better job this time round before Hillary gets in :D

[neuroking]

Yeah, today was aweful running around to doctors' offices. I wanted to make sure they knew that even though I work for big pharma, I voted Kerry. Can't wait to get back to school, cuz I can't imagine how much more corrupt the system can get.

[ECA]

Only problem with it is, the Big companies voted, the RICH voted, the upper middle class voted, but the Poor didnt.
They said 60% voted... 112,000,000 ISNT 60%
Maybe thats 112million Registered voters.

[ECA]

Neet site...

http://www.sikworld.com/#sik
http://www.sikworldstore.com/images/171T.jpg

[Archon]

*points at tecknogeek*

haha

[Ioman]

*points at tecknogeek*

haha


LOL you may get a laugh out of it, but it doesn't matter, your vote didn't count bro. NH voted Kerry lol.

[Ioman]

Only problem with it is, the Big companies voted, the RICH voted, the upper middle class voted, but the Poor didnt.
They said 60% voted... 112,000,000 ISNT 60%
Maybe thats 112million Registered voters.

You hit the nail on the head man. Republicans will always vote, its in their blood. Those that are strongly religious almost always vote Republican, so do the elderely.

The young vote mostly vote democrat - if they vote. Blacks vote democrat - if they vote. This is a serious problem, especially for Ohio which has a large black population. If they had voted, this may have been different.

But this is the way it always has been and will be. This election is no different.

The truth is that the nation is divided, Bush and Archon can brag all they want, but only 51% voted for Bush, this is a serious issue with America

[ECA]

I liked the Numbers better...
3 million seperation in votes, ONLY 3 million...Thats 1% of persons Nation wide.
But that AINT 12 electorial.

[llbbl]

Neet site...

http://www.sikworld.com/#sik
http://www.sikworldstore.com/images/171T.jpg

umm This isn't work safe, you get me in trouble =( Can you explain what it is next time so I can wait until i get home..

[llbbl]

Ioman, I think lots more people voted this time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._presidential_election

Last election it was 105 million. This time it was more than 120 million. People voted ... just for the wrong person. I am still trying to figure out why anyone with half a brain would vote for the stupid puppet.

[llbbl]

All I know is if he invades another country, I am marching on ****ing washington...

[llbbl]

So anyways. I found this web page. It is the election results for 2004 sorted by IQ from SAT/ACT scores.

I have recently been emailed by someone claiming to have seen a retraction many issues later on the behalf of the Economist Magazine. The Economist could not independently verify the IQ data and the retraction can be found here. I have yet to find any retractions from the St. Petersburg Times or other publications. Here you can find a report correlating IQ and income, and their relation to how people voted in the 2004 election. This IQ data is based on SAT/ACT test scores. Here you can see the correlation between percentage of college graduates in a state and whom they voted for in the 2000 election.

http://chrisevans3d.com/files/iq.htm

[ECA]

being SMART, or book learned, isnt always a sign of intelligence.

HOW about a list of the # of Registered Demo and Rep in each state... I bet that will show MORE...
I mean, that IF the state has a lower SAT/ACT they may tend to NOT vote...MOVE a few registered rep/demo into the state and you GET the WHOLE state vote.

[llbbl]

120 million out of 293,027,571. That is roughly only 41% of entire population living here who voted. What happened to the other 59%?

being SMART, or book learned, isnt always a sign of intelligence.

It tells you about the schooling in those states. These are high school students right? Well they can't vote, but their parents can. Smart parents usually don't raise stupid kids so does this mean that all the smart people live in the north or that all the smart people with out kids live in the south?

The vast majority good paying jobs are determined by how well a person does on their ACT/ SAT. There is a small percentage of highly gifted people who drop out of school and are able to be successful. Being able to do well on these tests is important. Test taking and the ability to learn through reading, writing and arithmetic is the only type of intelligence that mattters to the vast majority of the populace.

[ECA]

but as I said,
It would be neet to see how many registered Demo/Reps there are in those states as well.
I will BET, that it coinsides with the number that voted.