View Full Version : I hate money grubbing Petulent companies.
http://www.tompaine.com/feature.cfm/ID/6600
Cable was suppose to make LESS comercials.
Cars were supposed to be BETTER, and FLY by today.
Improved technology was supposed to make things better and cheaper. Priced a New tech stove lately.
What companies WONT do to make money. Take something that was FREE, and charge for it.
In the next 50 years, I will BET, they will find a way to charge for AIR.
IronSerif
10-30-2002, 08:27 PM
Don't they charge for air for your tires at gas stations now a days?
Wasn't there a point in time when that was free? lol... :D
There still are places that give you free air for tires... just have to look around for em. There is one near my house, but it doesn't have a pressure guage. I carry my own around anyways.
do either of you understand the FUN involved with games that were NOT design with 56k, in mind. Quake, half-life, others???
Where a person with 56k gets the SPIT kicked out of him, by a person with a Faster connection.
Im in a discussion with a person WHO thinks there ISNT a problem with it.
llbbl
10-30-2002, 10:24 PM
Originally posted by ECA
do either of you understand the FUN involved with games that were NOT design with 56k, in mind. Quake, half-life, others???
Where a person with 56k gets the SPIT kicked out of him, by a person with a Faster connection.
Im in a discussion with a person WHO thinks there ISNT a problem with it.
Off on a tangent again....
Ya I think that 56K makes a difference if you want to play games oline. Anyone who says differently is a moron or has other motives, like trying to piss you off.
What a pessimist you are! Petulent is a big word to be using on this forum :P
Petulent...unreasonably, irritable, illtempered.
Jsut the IDEA, that "IF" they can make money from it, THEY HAVE TO. Not if they want to, could if they wanted. THEY have to make money from it. Its like TAXING you to USE money. Not taxing when you use money, TAXING so that you CAN use the money. Charging you .25 just to spend a Buck. The State may tax me, but the money goes someplace, and NOT into someones POCKET.
Sorry, about that. I have an AVERSION to paying MORE then a product is worth. As in 3D glasses that arent NEW. Every 5 yrs some one comes out with the SAME glasses, and trys to get $50-100 when I can go buy the others from 5 years ago for $5-10?
With what these COMPANIES want to do. There will be NO free internet. Information will be GONE. It will be a giant ADVERT, and you will PAY to be advertized to. SICK aint it.
llbbl
10-30-2002, 11:20 PM
We should pay for access to information. The problem is that we can't currently pay for access to better information. It is hard to discemminate what is important for each person at any given moment. This could also be thought of as better access. Hopefully things will change.
I don't like capitalism all too much either, but at least I don't complain TOO much about it. Maybe you have a better idea?
Better Idea....LEAVE IT ALONE.
Just because its THERE dont mean you have to find a way to make money with it.
And, Im a believer in FREEDOM of information... Almost all information should be free to access, or free to train in.
Used to be in California, if you just walked into a class and set down you could LEARN anything, as long as you didnt want a degree from the class. Dont know if its still happening that way tho.
I hate the Idea that I have to PAY, over $300 for a book to learn everything about WINDOWS. Used to be when you got the OS, you got a book on how it Generally worked. Remember the Pokes, and peeks?? That windows book, also dont tell you HOW to program windows either. I'd love to setup the "description" on file listings.
I will STOP with the "USED to be's". And just say, Just because there is a WAY to make MORE money, doesnt MEAN you have to, or SHOULD. just because the Kid is standing at the corner wiating, dont mean you should KICK him into the street. Just because the Little old lady has some money, and you HELP her accross the street, DONT mean you have to TAKE it or CHARGE HER for it. Do you CHARGE your friends/family to take them to the STORE, even tho you WERE going there ANYWAY(Not me)...
v8juice
10-31-2002, 03:38 AM
If I stay with dial up I have total access, if I go with cable modem, they have control, correct?
llbbl
10-31-2002, 05:32 AM
Originally posted by v8juice
If I stay with dial up I have total access, if I go with cable modem, they have control, correct?
Cable is way better, trust me! Ask ECA to setup a firewall for you. Make sure he doesn't install any backdoors. :)
v8juice
10-31-2002, 05:54 AM
Originally posted by vindisco
Cable is way better, trust me! Ask ECA to setup a firewall for you. Make sure he doesn't install any backdoors.
Hey there vindisco, how ya doing? I have a firewall but if cable decides what I can access, I'm not impressed nor interested. Had dsl back in Portland, it was great, when cable hits here, I'll really have to think about it...
llbbl
10-31-2002, 06:09 AM
Its hard to argue with a believer in the FREEDOM of information, but lets see if I can give it a try.
I know you understand how capitalism economics works so I don't need to explain that. I know you understand how the stock market works and the general principals to becoming rich (invest wisely) are. Now what it seems you don't understand is the supposed purpose of businesses. To you old things are better left dead. To me old things can be remade into redesigned and updated reflections of the old self. Think of old movies and all the remakes that have happened recently. Would you have us pay nothing to watch the remake, just because the movie has been made before? It is the job of business men to find a way to bring to life the old products in the most profitable way possible. Businesses don't stay alive by charging too little for a popular product or by charging too much for a un popular product. It is the businesses man's JOB to find the most profitiable way of doing business. They are there to make a profit and too the really good business men, the most profit possible. It is their job to make money! To argue that Business shouldn't continue because business men aren't very ethical or because they shouldn't be, what appears to be, so money grubbing; is like saying the Fireman shouldn't try so hard to save people out a burning building or he/she shouldn't risk their life if it looks too dangerous. The arguement doesn't fit together very well now does it? The following was a basic lesson in macroeconomics.
I guess that doesn't really address your thought about poor kids and rich grandma's, but it kinda fits in there somewhere. Would it make more business "sense", given the explaniation above, if all business men went after the poor kids instead of the rich grandma's? No because you have to follow the money. Lets continue on with the analogies. Say the poor kid represents bottom 99% of America and the rich grandma represents the top 1%. Now you are going to have some products and services catering to both the kid and the mother while some that just cater to each specfically. It's called product differentiation, basic marketing here. You target your market based on a set of predetermined rules that you think will make you the most money. In our case the rule is we don't care how old (remember they represent, not all billionaires are over 80) they are but how much money they make. Now it would make good business "sense" to offer different qualities of service to each of the markets and then make sure you made everyone understand the difference in service. I don't think any business men would kick poor kids into the street, but they might watch over them to make sure they made it across without any major scrapes. What ever crossing the street service they decided on offering to the poor kids they would make sure that the poor kids would buy it and the rich grandma's had something better. I could think of alot more alaogies on what types of services that each might recieve, but I think you get the idea.
Today, the top 1% of income-earners, 2.7 million people receive 50.4 percent of the national income, more than the poorest 100 million people (Economic Policy Institute, 1999).
llbbl
10-31-2002, 06:36 AM
Hey there vindisco, how ya doing? I have a firewall but if cable decides what I can access, I'm not impressed nor interested. Had dsl back in Portland, it was great, when cable hits here, I'll really have to think about it...
Hey man I am doing allright, still recovering from being sick.
Not sure what you mean by cable deciding what you can access. I thought that you were pretty much free to access what you want, as long as you don't get caught for copyright infrigement. Caught being the key word here. You can't be until the ISP start giving the RIAA useage information about customers or the government / RIAA (and other evil organizations who would do such things [ Bush must be the Son of Satan. How else do you think he won the election? Plus he wears red tyes alot, maybe because he is going to burn in hell! I hope!]) hack into your computer and track what you do. They currently cannot, but they have or had a bill that purposes to make it legal to do so. I suggest that you visit http://action.eff.org/ for more information.
Get cable if you can afford it, like I said before, trust me!
llbbl
10-31-2002, 06:39 AM
I like cable better than DSL. If I had a choice I would go with cable.
Here is the direct link to the bill that I was talking about. It seems that it has already passed in the House but not the Senate.
http://action.eff.org/action/index.asp?step=2&item=1723
v8juice
10-31-2002, 06:52 AM
Glad to hear you're on the mend, just don't get sick again, ok? Now as to the internet access thing, if my cable company has control over what I can do on the internet, in any way, I'll stay with dial up & keep pestering the phone company to get dsl here. I do not like being told what to do.
llbbl
10-31-2002, 07:01 AM
I haven't heard anything such as that? Do you have some more "evidence" as to what you are talking about.? :) ;) :D
llbbl
10-31-2002, 07:09 AM
One element can be seen in industry lobbying for new use-based pricing schemes, which has been widely reported in trade press.
This is fine with me. If I have to pay a little more if I want to use more bandwidth than great we can play that game. Don't be suprised if I move to something different given the choice. There are alot of broadband companies out today, they all can't be cable. How come you can't have one company leasing the lines from another and have that other company not follow the same guidelines as the one who owns the lines? It certainly is possible. We might see a change in who owns the cable in your neighboorhood at that point., but this doesn't mean that all the companies will change their policy unless the government passes a law. It is up to us to make sure that doesnt' happen. Contact your damned Congress person and tell them what you think. They have email, they have fax machines. Heck write a post, copy that and send it along to Congress without editing it. We will help you write the letter if you want!
llbbl
10-31-2002, 07:12 AM
"The IP Service Control System from Ellacoya Networks gives the Broadband Operator ‘Total Service Control’ to closely monitor and tightly control its subscribers, network and offerings." So reads the Web site of Ellacoya.com, a relatively new firm, describing the business-to-business service that it is selling to large Internet service providers.
Ellacoya is backed by Wall Street investment powerhouse, Goldman Sachs, which sees a major opportunity to turn around the red ink-plagued broadband sector. Continuing, the website explains, "Establishing Total Service control enables operators to better manage traffic on the network, [and] easily introduce a range of tiered and usage based service plans... Talkative applications, especially peer-to-peer programs like KaZaA and Morpheus, tend to fill all of the available bandwidth... The IP Service Control System allows operators to identify, limit and report on these aggressive applications."
As soon as that happens, I am moving to Germany or the Netherlands. **** the USA and their thought that companies rule everybody and everything.
v8juice
10-31-2002, 07:16 AM
Well, the link in ECA's first post in this thread seems to contain the implications, maybe I'm imagining things but I see it as if you want cable access, they will be in control, maybe not now, but soon...
llbbl
10-31-2002, 07:44 AM
Well moving to DSL isn't going to solve your problem, buddy ole' pall.
v8juice
10-31-2002, 07:57 AM
Originally posted by vindisco
Well moving to DSL isn't going to solve your problem, buddy ole' pall.
DSL would cut the cable company out of the control picture, don't worry, dsl will hit here sometime in the next 20 years... Cable has good speed & the ability to control, that's it... Hey, what do I know? I'm just an ex very immense penis...
llbbl
10-31-2002, 10:39 AM
Originally posted by v8juice
DSL would cut the cable company out of the control picture, don't worry, dsl will hit here sometime in the next 20 years... Cable has good speed & the ability to control, that's it... Hey, what do I know? I'm just an ex very immense penis...
The telephone company can just as easily monitor its customers as cable can. In fact is it is probably easier for them. How many DSL users have a little program that they must run before they connect to the net? Can you imaging a little program which is similar but monitored which sites you visited and what programs you were running? I can.
That is why moving out of the country is the answer if you dont' want to conform to US Internet laws.
:(:confused: :( :( :argue
v8juice
10-31-2002, 11:07 AM
Originally posted by vindisco
The telephone company can just as easily monitor its customers as cable can. In fact is it is probably easier for them. How many DSL users have a little program that they must run before they connect to the net? Can you imaging a little program which is similar but monitored which sites you visited and what programs you were running? I can.
That is why moving out of the country is the answer if you dont' want to conform to US Internet laws.
:(:confused: :( :( :argue
I couldn't care less about them monitoring my activity. My first search on the net, via the fantastic computer that died, the Amiga, was for the word "****" for some reason. There is, however, the potential, if not the reality, for the cable companies to control what we are able to access, which bothers me.... Don't know why, but it does, no end.
P. S. As far as moving to another country goes, I'll have to win the powerball... Amsterdam, here we come!
Originally posted by vindisco
I know you understand how capitalism economics works so I don't need to explain that. I know you understand how the stock market works and the general principals to becoming rich (invest wisely) are. Now what it seems you don't understand is the supposed purpose of businesses.
(1) To you old things are better left dead. To me old things can be remade into redesigned and updated reflections of the old self.
(2)Think of old movies and all the remakes that have happened recently. Would you have us pay nothing to watch the remake, just because the movie has been made before?
(3) It is the job of business men to find a way to bring to life the old products in the most profitable way possible.
(4)Businesses don't stay alive by charging too little for a popular product or by charging too much for a un popular product. It is the businesses man's JOB to find the most profitiable way of doing business.
(5)They are there to make a profit and too the really good business men, the most profit possible. It is their job to make money! To argue that Business shouldn't continue because business men aren't very ethical or because they shouldn't be, what appears to be, so money grubbing; is like saying the
(6)Fireman shouldn't try so hard to save people out a burning building or he/she shouldn't risk their life if it looks too dangerous. The arguement doesn't fit together very well now does it? The following was a basic lesson in macroeconomics.
(7)Lets continue on with the analogies. Say the poor kid represents bottom 99% of America and the rich grandma represents the top 1%. Now you are going to have some products and services catering to both the kid and the mother while some that just cater to each specfically. It's called product differentiation, basic marketing here. You target your market based on a set of predetermined rules that you think will make you the most money. In our case the rule is we don't care how old (remember they represent, not all billionaires are over 80) they are but how much money they make. Now it would make good business "sense" to offer different qualities of service to each of the markets and then make sure you made everyone understand the difference in service. I don't think any business men would kick poor kids into the street, but they might watch over them to make sure they made it across without any major scrapes. What ever crossing the street service they decided on offering to the poor kids they would make sure that the poor kids would buy it and the rich grandma's had something better. I could think of alot more alaogies on what types of services that each might recieve, but I think you get the idea.
[/B]
(1)I love OLD tech... Think about Wireless service, and using radio, insted of CABLE, or DSL. Wireless access has been around for over 10 years(did you know that)
(2) remakes are fine, IF its an Improvement, and NOT the same thing in a NEW package. Loved "the THING".
(3) But he dont have to make 10x profit on a OLD item that REALLY isnt an improvement.
(4) REALLY? Look at Hamburgers. Same product sold from 16 companies at a COST of .10
(5) Nothing about a FAIR profit, Good for you. And in the END, business is there to MAKE our government/world/sociaty BETTER. DOW chemical/ Hemp/ Synthetic fibers/drug companies.... enough said.
(6) bad analigy... firemen are PAID to do it. Businessmen Just find anotherway to TAKe it from you, with something that WAS free, and making you PAY for it. WATER is FREE, NOW you PAY for it. Ever hear of "water rights" for Farmers. They aint got them anymore, BIG companies Bought them out, and NOW they get paid so the FARMERS can have WATER. REALLY.
(7) but If I can give the same service to the Kid, as to the Old lady, I would. The Kid pays LESS for the service, because he is POOR. Think about it. I pay $23 a month for Garbade, sewer, and water.... The ODDS are that you PAY around $60-100 a month. Garbageman can Pick up over 200 Garbage cans in 1 hour at $20 a service thats $4000 an hour. And it DONT mater who they are.
consider a ISP, and the services they provide. WHY would you want AOL? They censor EVERYthing, and Advert you to death. But for Kids, the parents have control. How manny ISPs, give you ALL the newsgroups? NONE, they found out they could make money with them.
Lets use your Movie analigy with Mother boards. WHy in the HELL are we using OLD tech on current mother boards. Where is parrallel processing, When are the OS's going to catch up with the ability to Process 128 bit, insted of 32(under windows). NOt, NOW, when we KNOW about it. NOt in the PAST 20 years when it was ceated. WHEN THEY(the companies DEEM it that SERIAL processing is at an END, and cant DO any better. It is NOT what WE know is available, it is what they wish to FEED us. And they want to make money off EVERY bite we take.
llbbl
10-31-2002, 01:43 PM
Lets use your Movie analigy with Mother boards. WHy in the HELL are we using OLD tech on current mother boards. Where is parrallel processing, When are the OS's going to catch up with the ability to Process 128 bit, insted of 32(under windows). NOt, NOW, when we KNOW about it. NOt in the PAST 20 years when it was ceated. WHEN THEY(the companies DEEM it that SERIAL processing is at an END, and cant DO any better. It is NOT what WE know is available, it is what they wish to FEED us. And they want to make money off EVERY bite we take.
We still use x86 for Intel / AMD because that is the standard. Are you saying that for the average user a 2.5 GHz is not powerfull enough. Even a gamer with a $450 vid card and the same processor doesn't need more power.
The average everyday computer user doesn't need a terminal attached to a Sun Enterprise[tm] 10000 server, also known as Starfire[tm].
http://www.sun.com/servers/highend/10000/
At some point speed becomes a convience. It depends more nowadays on what you can do with a computer, if you are good enough then your work place will allow you access to one of the servers above ( or better )
You think, 2.8 ghz is Good.
What would you do with a Quad processor?
I could use 1ghz chips and have a FASTER computer...4x1ghz.=4ghz And thats Parrallel processing. THINK about the band pass on that... And they were making THOSE 20 years ago with the 386. WHY did they go BACK to 1 processor. Because WINDOWS, didnt want to make a BETTER OS, that would work in that environment. When it DID, It was called NT, they didnt Follow it up. So, windows MADE everyone follow MS into making NT worth it. They FINALLY got NT and Windows, together......XP. But, XP still SUCKS. To little to LATE. No-one makes a Intell Multi processor machine, NOW. I will BET you, thet the NEXT innovation to come out, will be XP, on a multi proccessor Board.
llbbl
11-01-2002, 08:07 AM
Ya you might use a Dual or a Quad, but most people wouldn't even get beyond that first processor. If they do Duals aren't that expensive. I am thinking of building a nice AMD system when I get some more cash.
You can bash on XP all you want it has a lot of holes and just now is appearing almost stable. That leaves no mention of Win2k, which was a friggin great OS compared to NT 4.0. It is currently my favorite M$ OS. I haven't decided what I want to do with my new machine. Maybe Dual boot ME (just to piss everyone off) and Linux.
XP Pro already supports multiprocessing you dork.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/55/27874.html
OK, we have to find out something... How manny sec. vulnerabilites have the OTHER OS's had in tha LAST year...
llbbl
11-02-2002, 06:21 AM
First up and more seriously, a buffer overflow flaw has been unearthed involving Microsoft's implementation of Point-to-Point Tunnelling Protocol (PPTP), a Virtual Private Networking technology natively supported within Windows 2000 and Windows XP. PPTP support is an optional component in Windows NT 4.0, Windows 98, Windows 98SE, and Windows ME.
Although Microsoft reckons the vulnerability would be difficult in practice to exploit, and could only be used to make systems fall - not be taken - over, it still rates the vulnerability as critical. You can find the patch by following the link on Microsoft's advisory here.
1. I don't use VPN. This attack sounds like one that someone would use to piss someone off. I haven't pissed off any hackers capable of this that I know about.
Less seriously, at least according to Redmond, is an alert warning that "Windows 2000 Default Permissions Could Allow Trojan Horse Program".
A dramatic title indeed but what we're talking about here is what Microsoft rates as a "moderate risk" that might only be abused by someone logged into the same workstation as an intended victim. This only really affects workstations (not servers) and the risk is from internal miscreants, not mendacious external attackers. Remote Terminal server sessions too would be at little risk, because each user's environment is isolated.
2. I don't give access to this machine to anyone that I don't absolutly trust.
vBulletin® v3.8.1, Copyright ©2000-2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.