HTPC's what are they and what purpose do they serve?

[Ioman]

http://www.whiningdog.net/Articles/PC/HTPC/Part1/index.htm


"So what exactly is an HTPC? First off the acronym is short for Home Theater Personal Computer. You’ll hear a number of other possible acronyms for this class of Personal Computing including the HCPC (Home Cinema Personal Computer) and the Media Center PC (Microsoft terminology). They describe the same concept: having a personal computer as part of your home entertainment system. Now keep in mind that this is really not a specific feature relegated to the Windows/Linux PC market. You can build an Apple based HTPC but it will more than likely cost more money than a PC. One popular configuration is to add the PC as a video or auxiliary component to a receiver. Then you can basically use your receiver to multiplex between your various sources of audio and video – one of which is the HTPC itself. If you have a receiver which takes in digital input via optical or coaxial connectors, then go ahead and connect the digital audio components if the HTPC has them. "

I think this is all pretty obvious. The thing I did not see is that they did not mention special parts that are required for a HTPC like what type of video cards to use, silent powersupplies and fans, sound deadening for the case and hard drive etc...

Building a good HTPC takes a lot of research and trial and error in my opnion. Good start for the article, but part 2 better have details!

[senoryoshio]

my htpc is just an older Dell...but it serves the living room fine despite all the roommates who ***** about it when something gets messed up....of course they wouldn't contribute to putting a better machine down there....jerks

[ECA]

I agree IO,
It does take alot of Information, and research to Make a GOOD one. And in my Opinion, If ALL it does is Video, and expanded audio. Its a waste. Why get a DVD drive and not have a DVD video card. Why have Cable/SAT TV if its NOT delivering Dolby sound. But then comes the neet Ideas, like sending the AUDIO from the HTPC, to a Tuner(with Dolby, souround sound) as to have better speakers, insted of computer speakers. Sending this signal to the tuner can suck if you aint got the right ports, and TUNER.
It isnt easy setting this up correctly.

[Ioman]

Originally posted by ECA
I agree IO,
It does take alot of Information, and research to Make a GOOD one. And in my Opinion, If ALL it does is Video, and expanded audio. Its a waste. Why get a DVD drive and not have a DVD video card. Why have Cable/SAT TV if its NOT delivering Dolby sound. But then comes the neet Ideas, like sending the AUDIO from the HTPC, to a Tuner(with Dolby, souround sound) as to have better speakers, insted of computer speakers. Sending this signal to the tuner can suck if you aint got the right ports, and TUNER.
It isnt easy setting this up correctly.

Thanks ECA, that is my thoughts exactly. We have been working hard in the labs to make a good HTPC. There are many different configurations that are possible. You want the Hard drive and the CPU to be incredibly quiet and you want all the features of a reciever, DVD player and a computer, so there is a lot of tweaking to do.

[ECA]

Very true, And I didnt even touch on the idea of Computer TV integration. THAT sucks bad, unless you get a GREAT TV, Front view projection, or TFT/Plasma are the only ones (now days) that would have the connectors to do it easily. Unless you LIKE 640x480 .36+ DPI.

[ddennedy]

Computer TV integration is not as bad as you make it sound. I purchased a Sampo 32" CRT Digital TV over 1.5 years ago for < USD$1500. It handles 1024x768 like a charm, but the dot pitch is around 0.36 as you alluded to. However, when I use my HTPC, I do not sit up close and personal like I do with a personal computer. I have RF wireless keyboard, mouse, and X10 remote.

My biggest complaint with my HTPC is the DVD drive. I have a Ricoh MP9120 DVD-ROM/CD-RW/CD-R combo drive. I thought it was supposed to be pretty good. It is too noisy, delays when switching to the second layer, and is very picky about disk quality--and I have kids!!

It is great for digitally encoding my old vinyl. I use JRiver Media Jukebox for that.

[ddennedy]

Oh, I forgot to mention that this TV has a VGA connector, and for HDTV it handles 1080i although my model is only a 4:3 aspect.

I used a WinTV-HD with it, and that sucks too. Now, I have switched over to an RCA DTC-100 HDTV tuner.

[Ioman]

Originally posted by ECA
Very true, And I didnt even touch on the idea of Computer TV integration. THAT sucks bad, unless you get a GREAT TV, Front view projection, or TFT/Plasma are the only ones (now days) that would have the connectors to do it easily. Unless you LIKE 640x480 .36+ DPI.

I am assuming that the resolution coming out of a video cards TV out port via S-video is somewhere around 500 lines of resolution, the same as a DVD player with S-video out or satellite with S-video out has. If that is the case, then I would not be bothered by DVD playback via the HTPC. However using the OS like Windows XP at that reolution would of course be bothersome. In that case a television with a VGA input or RGB inputs would be my preference.

Another thing to think about is that WebTV made it for years off a regular teleivion input, so most people probably would not be bothered by the lower resolution. It will be great when we can all afford Plasma teleivions because there are so many input options with them.

[Ioman]

Originally posted by ddennedy
Oh, I forgot to mention that this TV has a VGA connector, and for HDTV it handles 1080i although my model is only a 4:3 aspect.

I used a WinTV-HD with it, and that sucks too. Now, I have switched over to an RCA DTC-100 HDTV tuner.

Sounds like a sweet teleivision! I think that when you bought it, Hitachi was the only other manufacturer out with a similar product. $1500 sounds about right in price too.

[ECA]

And HOw manny PEOPLE really KNOW any of this.
Im from the Age when a Boom box, Still had Inputs, and Outputs, so you could ADD stuff to it.

How many persons would buy a System that was "SAID" to be HTPC, and wouldnt know what to do with it, or what to LOOK for to make sure it was what they needed.

[neogeek]

I have finally built my HTPC..
Or now what industry calls a Time Shifting device
.. It's a
Shuttle Box.. SS51G
2.4 gig proc
1gig ram
100g IBM 7200
LG CDRW DVD-Rom
playing with differnt video cards..

Take a look
www.neogeek.com
Projects

Current issues are..
Making the intergration to TV. In otherwords I wanted a seemless intergration.. not one that is allways up and in my face.. as little gui as possible. I was am looking for the features that I found in the TIVO
I like that I could Say.. Record all SG-1 ep....
I am still new to show shifter but it does nto seem to have this fuctionality..
I dont like to have all this GUI stuff.. I dont mind a small tool bar at the bottom of my screen.. but the UI in Showshifter sux's

Oh well.. more testing..
Current Software ...

Working with ShowShifter.. (it's reg'd)
Working with DIVXpro (reg'd)
WinXP pro (reg'd)
Harware...
Irman
ATI.. Radeon AIW and All in Wonder (rage pro)
--one has svideo input the older one has coax input.


Holler if ya are intrested in me posting more of my progress..


James

[ECA]

And for all the money you have spent.. Wouldnt it be easyer to get a TiVo, and a DVD player, and a VCR. Add a tuner and Great speakers.

What do you GET that is MORE then having these, when you have the HTPC.

[neogeek]

What I get.. That I dont get with Tivo.. or current mass produced ilk..

OK OK... yes.. this is all becuase I can and it's a toy..
that said..
WHY?
DIVX--- Tighter smaller and 5.1..

Portability--Can play on my laptop.. Desktop.. Ipaq.. Yes windows media streaming will rock for this... But still even if when I use WMA for this a tivo is not portable in that way.. I have had Tivos' I have hacked TIvos.. It's a pain in the ass to get files off the Tivo. You see I got me one of them USB drives (USB power and you put a laptop hard drive in them).. I can plugg this into my HTPC and MY Laptop and My IPAQ and then all can play the files I have created... True Plugg and Play..

I have complete control.. Yet again.. I can do what I want with the files and make them what ever codec I want .. You cant do that with a TIVO or Sonic blue. If I want to add another Hardrive... etc
Can you suft the web on your Tivo? Does your HDTV BigScreen work to it's full potential? The RGB input on the HDTV's now beegggg for computers to be plugged into them..

One of the BIG one here..
Ever download something off Bear/Ka/Lime/Donkey?
Wish you could watch it on your TV? .. Now you can..


I am all about the Couch.. I think were moving away from the cream colored computers with the cream colored options..
Lets put the entertainment part of the PC where it belongs ..
My fat ass on the couch..

That just a few of the reason.. but you get the idea..??

James

[Ioman]

Originally posted by ECA
And for all the money you have spent.. Wouldnt it be easyer to get a TiVo, and a DVD player, and a VCR. Add a tuner and Great speakers.

What do you GET that is MORE then having these, when you have the HTPC.

Is your DVD player upgradable? How about your VCR? With an HTPC it can last theoretically as long as you want. I have always been intrigued by the idea of an HTPC. Personally, I would use it to check e-mail during commercials, to record movies/shows and to play MP3's/streaming internet music through my hometheater. The issue I used to have in the past was finding a suitable case and trying to reduce noise. Now there are a ton of good looking cases and plenty of noise reduction methods. I like the wireless keyboard combinations too.

What I don't understand is how Microsoft and HP can introduce a computer with multimedia capabilities complete with computer speakers and a monitor and called that basically the same thing as an HTPC. I mean a REAL HTPC in my opinion, is something that integrates with your home theater and television system.

[neogeek]

Ioman has add'd to my point..
I have not even metioned the fact that it will play MP3's off your local or network drive..
There are LCD displays that will plugg into winamp that display the current song and artist.. etc.. So you dont have to have your TV on to see the selection options.. Damn near plug in play kits for remote control of winamp and the backlight LCD....

Some of the "other" optoins are adding X10 control from your Couch (my fat ass agin)..
Couple this with wireless and you can keep the AV center clean and quiet (yes the shuttle box is damn quiet)..

--James
Yo Ian..!!!

[ECA]

i understand ALL this.
I also understand WINDOWS is a HOG.
How is Linux doing on this front.

[Ioman]

Originally posted by ECA
i understand ALL this.
I also understand WINDOWS is a HOG.
How is Linux doing on this front.

I get e-mails daily from people asking me how to build an HTPC with Linux and my answer is simply "no". You cannot build an HTPC feature for feature with Linux Vs. Windows. It is sad really....from the OS and software to the hardware and driver support, it can't happen at this point in time.

[ECA]

Originally posted by Ioman


I get e-mails daily from people asking me how to build an HTPC with Linux and my answer is simply "no". You cannot build an HTPC feature for feature with Linux Vs. Windows. It is sad really....from the OS and software to the hardware and driver support, it can't happen at this point in time.

This is a problem I have in todays TECH..
Used to be, that when a driver was made, it was made for ALL OS's, NOt just for 1 machine.
I know Linux is catching up. But when will the manufactours GET the point. If they added drivers for Linux, they would STILL have a market. And probably a Much bigger one. As I would think the Gamers would FLOCK to linux.

[neogeek]

Funny you should ask..
I tried.. True.. I am not a god on linux.. (nor at windows)..
In fact I noramly HATE windows. (ask Ioman we go back a few years).. All that aside.. Where are we with linux and a HTPC..
Well.. as most of you know Tivo is run on LINUX...
IT's a PowerPC chip (thats a MAC chip )... with slim amount of Ram and slim amount of video memory..
Why?...
Your right.. Linux would be a rockin choice but the difficulty in getting hardware that is suppoted under linux.
...I tried about a a year and a half ago to do this in an all linux way.. The problems I ran into are/were...


Video Drive support. Sure sure you can get drivers BT83 or something like that for the ATI cards.. Sure they will DVD DEcode without a problem.. But at the time and I would argue even now Find drivers for using the ENcoding onboard the Video card...

User Interface.. The programs they offer for the Windows PC Vrs the Linux PC... Hate to say more for the Windows PC.. One of the motivating factors is being able to build a few box's and flush out the buggs and then share in the info.. Funny thing is I work at a Software Company.. (doing product support.. yawn) and you would be amazed the # of guys I an mow helping build one of these.. They are all smart guys. IT's the wives and girlfriend that are not the computer gods. Without coding a UI for them I can use WIndows (something they know and understand) and if it breaks I can either fix it easy or call (god forbid) support.

Biggest obsticle... Until recently I did worry major about the bloat beast called Windoze.. Funny thing is.. Fast CPU and a ****load of Ram I am encoding DIVX "movie Quality" VBR at 38 to 48% CPU load... IN otherwords the Hardware has finaly overcome the bloat of Windows.. Non Formal testing has XP running better on the same hardware then 2kpro (shaking head in disbelief.. always thought new was more bloat)..

Honestly I was bummed I (me personaly not everyone just me) that I could not do it in linux. I even tried looking in to hacking the Win98 kernel (got a PII 450 with 256 megs) to boot with 99% of resource free (no more notepad, calc, etc..)
So.. saved some cash, waited and tried again on the box I described above...

I do not claim to have the "best" solution.. In fact I was at Circuit City the other day and some a DVD player with Time Slip (Tivo Function).... See this link Panasonic DVD recorder (http://www.prodcat.panasonic.com/shop/NewDesign/ModelTemplate.asp?ModelId=16079&show_all=false&product_exists=True&active=1&ModelNo=DMR-HS2&CategoryId=2596) But... does not have all the OTHER atvantages of my box....
Honestly VHS for recording is dead... BYE BYE.. DVD is here...
How you do it will be up for dedate.. big debate.. Can TIVO make it.. Question? is TIVO in the black yet?

If they become open enough it will become a brand name like xerox.

Some other things I should metion of why the Shutle box..
Optical/SPDIF in/out. What this mean is I dont get the case hum across the line when audio is pumped out of PC... The signal is digital..
Really I guess I built the box cuz if the details..The litte things it can to that the Others can't ..
Having it so my folks/girlfriend/neighbor etc, can use it was more important then the perfect OS choice..
Anyways..
True.. Linux rocks.. in fact Linux would be better.. But i am not that good with linux.. If you are.. do it.. post it and show me how to.. Cuz I admit it.. I dont...
In my own defense I support products on Linux , and Solaris..
Windows of course... This does not make me good..
Just average..

--just my 2cents

[Ioman]

Anyone notice that there are a plethora of Multimedia PC's using the Microsoft Windows XP media center edition?

What is the difference between a "media center" and an HTPC?

Alienware has a unit similar to what NeoGeek has built.

http://www.alienware.com/main/media_center.asp

http://www.alienware.com/main/images/mce_navigator.jpg

http://www.alienware.com/main/images/mce_navigator_back.jpg

BTW, we saw Shuttle selling the exact same case at Comdex. So you could easily build your own system guys....why pay $2K?

[ECA]

I agree, IO..

With alittle knowledge, you can create what others SELL.
And maybe make it ALOT better, as you make it for YOUR standards, not theres.
You may, settle for something alittle cheaper on one part(for now) and upgrade it later.

But I still have a hard time, letting my comp run my stereo, tuner, DVD, CD, and other items. When you can go out and buy most of the Items themselves, and when ONE Fails, replace it, for less then your WHOLE comp.
But, some will. And for those people I would say, PROTECT your system. UPS, AV-progs, Spike protection on the phone line, and ANYTHING else you can think of(Linux fire wall on a seperate comp).
Setting this up is like haveing a BOOM-box with EVERYthing in it, and when ONE item fails, you MAY have to replace it all.

(Dont know about you but)
I tend to find that windows doesnt like to do more then 3-4 things, with hardware, at a time. Even with USB, firewire, and 6 slots. I tend to see windows corrupt itself with al the drivers.

[Ioman]

So would everyone rather have a small square HTPC or a system that LOOKED like a home reciever? I would rather have one that looked like a home reciever. Black or polished aluminum.

[ECA]

I see your point.
WHY is this BOX, BIG and square. FLAT, would fit better with the components.

[llbbl]

Originally posted by Ioman
So would everyone rather have a small square HTPC or a system that LOOKED like a home reciever? I would rather have one that looked like a home reciever. Black or polished aluminum.

I wouldn't want one that was square and had to sit upright. I would much prefer a sideways desktop model, similar to the coolermaster. I wouldn't MIND a small square device such as the Alienware. If I was going to purchase one, I would look at the options and the price and make a decision.

[ragingsea]

interesting that the idea of HTPC is coming to the forefront now - i stumbled into this site thru google, searching for HTPC candidate desktop cases. I m still searching for full ATX cases that can look the part, and the ones i like are way too expensive. other choices are mostly for baby-ATX or mini-ATX or ITX cases. Way too small for what i need. for now im just fine tuning what i put together in a midtower case.

Ive been mulling around the notion for years, but the i needed the stability for the OS, and the ability to play all types of media (CD, DVD, VCD, mpeg, mov, and avi, as well as jpg, bmp, and other files). Win98SE and winME seemed a good candidate for multimedia apps, but the sheer resource hogging and memory leaks both suffered was enough to look past them. Win2k was stable, but lacked "frills" needed for multimedia applications. Then came XP which i really didnt think to be a decent OS until i tried it. it combined ME's multimedia capabilities and win2k's NT stability. And the explosion of the Gigahertz era and the low-cost memory options took out of the picture the problem of resource-hogging - it no longer was an issue (as pointed out in a previous post).
Linux is a great OS, but the lack of driver support for most of what i use is still an issue, and BeOS was a great promise broken. Mac? too expensive, and not much serviceable user parts :) .
The point was to build an inexpensive HTPC (at least for me - im poor). living in a small apt with thin walls (where you can hear your neighbors do the nasty ever so often), and having a 5.1ch 600W receiver with an 18"sub just wont do. Plus HDTV is still out of my reach, and i dont expect to get one til maybe a few years down the line. Im quite satisfied with my 27" TV for now, with a humble S-video input. Its more than enough for me.
Ive enjoyed DVD movies since i first got my DVD player years ago, and wouldnt trade it for a million VCRs. Imagine my surprise when i finally got my PC to play my DVDs on my TV and got an absolutely clear picture as good as the DVD player. HAving the 5.1 sound card put it over the edge - i can now finally HEAR what my DVD movies were trying to "say"- SUROUND SOUND. Ive now unhooked my DVD player and have exclusively used my PC for DVD playing now. Plus the simple 5.1 sound card gave my mp3s new life - surround sound playback also! Its become my personal jukebox, having ripped 80% of my CDs, totaling about 3700 songs in a 40GB drive. And yep - all the downloaded movies ive had for years are now viewable from my TV. I no longer have to LEAN FORWARD, instead i now SIT BACK COMFORTABLY ON MY COUCH.
anyhoo, this is why im building my simple HTPC. i really hesitate calling it HT, since its hardly a theater i have. But what i DO HAVE is an ENTERTAINMENT PC - all the multimedia i have on my PC converging with my TV. and i am entertained. :P Of course, there is the added perk of recording digitally to the hard drive, either manually or by timeshifting. FInally laying to rest my good old VCR.
in closing (sorry this got to be very long), id like to say im quite proud of my humble HTPC since its made out of mostly older parts that ive upgraded from, so it actually hasnt cost me much, if at all.
right now here is what i have:
midtower case (maybe some full ATX desktop soon)
Abit BE6-II
1.2GHz tualatin celeron, modded to work on a slotket III overclocked to 1.53GHz (my special ingredient)
128MB RAdeon 8500 (not AIW, but great picture quality over a 64MB GF2 GTS Pro)
768MB SDRAM (kingston)
300W PSU
1hitachi 12X DVD-ROM drive
1 20GB drive (OS)
1 40GB (audio files)
1 40GB (movie files)
1 ATA100 Promise IDE controller
1 Pinnacle PCTV tuner card
5.1ch sound card, C-media 8738
PowerDVD XP
sonique 1.8 something
winamp 2.78
irfanview (gfx files)
USB 10/100 ethernet adapter
altec lansing ACS54 used as bass
some no name 4ch speaker system
plus or minus a component or two...

as you can see, most of the stuff on it are "old" - the only thing i bought recently was the soundcard - even that was just an upgrade from a similar soundcard i had before.
noise level is decent, but maybe i just need to close the side panel (heh, like i said, im still tweaking the PC...)
maybe the final piece of this puzzle is the case - just cant find anything decent, and those that i do find are way too much $$$ (for $250 i can MAKE another PC....)
hopefully i find one later on.
thanks all! :)

[llbbl]

Welcome to the site ragingsea. I hope you enjoy it and visit us often!

[Archon]

I have a SFF PC I just built and put in my room, its uber quiet :)

hooked up a set of 2.1 klipsch to them and some $300 Samsung SyncMaster 15in... works uberwell for what I want it to, and it is uber small

[Ioman]

Originally posted by ragingsea
interesting that the idea of HTPC is coming to the forefront now - i stumbled into this site thru google, searching for HTPC candidate desktop cases. I m still searching for full ATX cases that can look the part, and the ones i like are way too expensive. other choices are mostly for baby-ATX or mini-ATX or ITX cases. Way too small for what i need. for now im just fine tuning what i put together in a midtower case.

Ive been mulling around the notion for years, but the i needed the stability for the OS, and the ability to play all types of media (CD, DVD, VCD, mpeg, mov, and avi, as well as jpg, bmp, and other files). Win98SE and winME seemed a good candidate for multimedia apps, but the sheer resource hogging and memory leaks both suffered was enough to look past them. Win2k was stable, but lacked "frills" needed for multimedia applications. Then came XP which i really didnt think to be a decent OS until i tried it. it combined ME's multimedia capabilities and win2k's NT stability. And the explosion of the Gigahertz era and the low-cost memory options took out of the picture the problem of resource-hogging - it no longer was an issue (as pointed out in a previous post).
Linux is a great OS, but the lack of driver support for most of what i use is still an issue, and BeOS was a great promise broken. Mac? too expensive, and not much serviceable user parts :) .


Is your HTPC relatively quiet? Are you using ATI's component video adapter dongle to output the DVD video or strictly S-video out? I would like to see some pictures of your system if you could post them. BTW, welcome to the forums!:)