Sin City -- 4/1/05

[llbbl]

Action/Adventure and Crime/Gangster
2 hrs. 06 min. Sin City is a violent city where the police department is as corrupt as the streets are deadly. In this movie, we follow three stories, the central of which is Marv, a tough-as-nails and nearly impossible to kill street fighter who goes on a rampage of vengeance when a beautiful woman, Goldie (King), he sleeps with for only one night is killed while lying in bed

http://movies.yahoo.com/shop?d=hv&cf=info&id=1808560210

[k2]

frank miller is quoted in the latest playboy about this movie. he shares directoral credit. it should be the best comic > movie conversion ever.

[Buckwheat]

This movie looks awesome! I can't wait to see it.

[Forsaken]

I read a quote by the director (not frank miller) that stated he was trying to use the same camera angles/shots as they were drawn in the comic book. Hope this is true, this is a movie that I have been waiting to see for a while. :)

[znaps]

Yeah, Robert Rodriguez is the co-director.

There's an article in this month's Wired about it. It looks great, but my only concern is that Robert Rodriguez movies always leave me slightly unsatisfied because his characters are never developed very well. He seems to value style over substance, but since he's got some help on this one and it's coming from a Comic book, it might be really good.

[k2]

don't worry, frank miller drew every scene; robert rodriguez just had to follow miller's vision.

[llbbl]

ok who saw it.

[Ioman]

I saw it and liked it. Probably more gore than I would have liked though.

It was definately exactly like a comic book. Mikey(spelling) Rourke did a great job acting IMO.

[Archon]

great movie. Jessica Alba is sex.

[llbbl]

Jessica Alba is sex.

:doh

forgot the "y" :P

[Archon]

no.

Jessica Alba IS sex

[Sunny]

no.

Jessica Alba IS sex

Umm...I'm sure Jessica Alba, the actress, would be thrilled to know that one of her fans thinks of her as the definition of sex rather than as three-dimensional, flesh and blood person who actually has feelings and a brain in her head...

:sure

[Archon]

exactly.

Actually, I'm not a fan of hers, she just looked great in the movie.

[Sunny]

Uh huh. No thoughts on her acting ability or anything deeper, hmm? I thought so.

This is exactly why I had planned not to see this movie. Something tells me it is all about style over substance, and from what I've heard and seen so far, none of the female characters is developed beyond being a cardboard cutout. And while Jessica Alba is certainly lovely to look at, I'm afraid she's fallen into the same trap so many other young actresses have--being typecast as a beautiful object.

Any other women on this site seen this movie yet?

[Archon]

Her acting was fine. It is hard to say much about her because she was not a main character. In fact, most of the women in the movie were supporting characters.

[Sunny]

My point exactly. :rolleyes:

[Archon]

well, think about the movie in question. Its an adaptation of the graphic novels, whose primary readers are (I'd imagine) -- guys. Its not to say the women didn't play an important part in the movie (cause the entire movie pretty much revolved around them), its just in that... well... there aren't any fat women in this movie for a reason.

[Sunny]

So what you're implying is that men are only interested in movies where women are sexual objects rather than strong, intelligent characters? And that the only time a woman is not treated as a sexual object is if she is fat?

:brick


Like I said-I'll wait to get a perspective from some other women who have seen the movie before. I'm sure there are some young women out there who are into the whole graphic novel/action thing.

[Archon]

yea, well, I know I don't take fat women seriously.

Calm down Sunny.

I didn't say guys only go to movies if there are scantly clad women in it, I said this perticular movie, the artistic style is based entirely around the graphic novels in which the women, though being major supporting characters, are scantly clad dream women.

[Sunny]

That was rather clear w/o your having to repeat yourself. Look, I was trying to get a deeper interpretation of this movie, which seems to be a representation of an outdated sexist society....you know, the big picture.


And I'm quite calm, Archon my dear.

[Ioman]

Well you two are both getting me worked up! Just teasing.

The movie was OK IMO. Too much blood and gore for my taste. The Cinemtography was very good. I thought Mikey Rourke did a great job acting. Jessica Alba MAYBE only had about 15 minutes of screen time. In fact, more of the women had very small parts.

If you are a fan of comic books or Sci-Fi, you should like it for the most part.

[Sunny]

Hehe, thanks for the heads up on the movie, Ioman. I am a major Sci-Fi fan, so I'll probably check it out at some point.

[llbbl]

Guy Movies:
Sin City
Star Wars
Any movie with Denise Richards in it.
GI Jane


Girl Movies:
The English Patient
Sense and Sensibility
Any movie with Barbra Streisand in it.
Ghost

The point is that I doubt that many females are going to appreciate it the movie, especially if they go into it looking for every chauvinistic sterotype that they put into movies.

[Sunny]

Come on, TG, do you really think things are still so black and white? While I did like The English Patient, I am not a fan of Sense and Sensibility or Ghost (and I don't read Danielle Steele novels, either). I happen to love the Star Wars series, as well as The Matrix and XMen. In this day and age, when we're seeing a new crop of heroines--think of Ripley, Trinity, Electra, the women in Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon....then there's Charlie Baltimore in "Long Kiss Goodnight". (Even the robot in T3 was female!! LOL) This IS 2005, after all!
And am I crazy, or is it impossible that men can actually enjoy watching strong female characters? :P

[llbbl]

Ok star wars was a bad example. :) I thought this to my self hours after I posted and that there was a very good chance that you were a fan of it eheh.

So back to the argument :) What do you want to debate about?

1) Chauvinism in general as seen in the Movies
2) Female actresses and the clothes that they wear
3) Western stereo types of women as found in our movies
4) Anti-Feminist ideals found in movies as portrayed by actresses and the clothes they wear

With regards to this movie, you will have to remember that I haven't seen it yet, so I can't comments aren't going to be very acurate, I was responding in general the questions you had raised.

"Sin City" is infested with criminals, crooked cops and sexy dames, some searching for vengeance, some for redemption and others, both. The film incorporates storylines from three of Miller's graphic novels including 'Sin City,' which launched the long-running, critically acclaimed series, as well as 'That Yellow Bastard' and 'The Big Fat Kill.' Where Hartigan, a cop with a bum ticker and a vow to protect stripper Nancy (Jessica Alba).. Mickey Rourke as Marv, the outcast misanthrope on a mission to avenge the death of his one true love, Goldie (Jaime King), and Clive Owen as Dwight, the clandestine love of Shelley (Brittany Murphy), who spends his nights defending Gail (Rosario Dawson) and her Old Towne girls (Devon Aoki and Alexis Bledel) from Jackie Boy (Benicio Del Toro), a dirty cop with a penchant for violence.

Jesica Alba plays a stripper so that makes sense if she is dressing for the part right. How many 300 pound strippers that wear sweatsuits from walmart do you see? Brittany Murphy is a girlfriend or supposed to represent the "ideal" woman. If you are wanting to represent the "ideal" woman in your movie you don't hire a 300 pound actress that wears sweatsuits from walmart. The last woman in this movie, Jaime King is the girlfriend of a mob boss and I am sure that any reason that she is dressing skimpy is due to the following reasons.

1) The scene demands it. ( she is in bed with her boyfriend or trying to seduce him )
2) Her role demands it. ( how many mob bosses have TRADITIONALLY had fat ugly women as their girlfriends )

Any other issues with the roles of women in this movie you might have, I don't think are very well founded. This is how the story was originally written and if the main character was originally a man but in the movie you changed it to a female than you are probably going to piss people off and the movie will get a bad rap and you will loose your shorts on the movie all because you were not TRUE to the original story.

[Ioman]

Ok I think this should stop. Tecknogeek will argue just to argue and I do not want to see this get into a flame. Back to the original arguement, Archon has just posted that Alba is sex and Sunny wanted to know more about the acting. Archon was certainly shallow in his remark and IMO Sunny was justified to address it.

End of discussion, Tecknogeek behave!

[openbsd-flipp]

I am not sure what to thing about this movie. From what I have seen of all comic books tuned into movies I really don't think that I will. From my opinion on the Sin City comics (good) I do not want that option of a whole series to be trashed because of a movie. Granted the previews lookd good but so did Star Wars: Episode 1 and we all know how bad that movie is. That is just an example on how one crap ass movie can destroy a legacy and the want for me to continue watching/reading about the series. Think back to all thouse crap 80's comic book movies. One out of 50 was worth the time to watch and Not a single one of them left me with the desire to see a sequle or to read any more comice of the same name. The Punisher was a great example of how a really bad movie can destroy a good comic. I used to obsessively read that comic more then any others but once I say the movie I could not bring myself to read another one.
This goes the same for books as well. For all intensive purposes if it was a book first that was good I am not going to go see the movie. Of course there are a few exceptions to this rule like I am probabilly going to see the new Hitchikers Guide but I can see me very easily walking out on it. The one thing about Dogulas Adams' writing is that he contradicts himself alot and all of his work was a work in progress. He mentioned that fact in several interviews and I do not see anything wrong with that since it was a constent source of great entertainment. The only thing that can pull the spirit of a DA book/movie is when the "Americanize" it and remove the subtle humour that it has.
But ither then that I absolutely refuse to see any new crap movies that destroy great works of media. That includes Comics, Books, and previous movies. I do not care what the reviews are and who is in it, if the movie is not an origional I do not want to see it. Hollywood is bad enough with their origional movies that when they take a perfectly good book and turn it into a movie it turns out worse then if it was a cartoon drawn by a 5 year old. Every once in a while there are a few exceptions to this but for the most part it is pretty standered. And another thing I would rather see a female Jabba the hut with brains doing a strip tease in a movie then another brainless "sex kitten" that is completely useless for anything besides their looks. That goes for both sexes. I don't care in Vin Diesel is the "hotest guy out there" John WEayne's rotten corpse has more brain power then he does and would kick his arse.
I'm sick and tired of movies promoting brain dead loosers that would be forever working at McDonalds if it was not for the way they look. All that is doing is showing lazy ass humans that it is ok if you are a looser as long as you look good. Fsck that. Do something constructive with your lives that involves exercising your brain. But I forget society does not want us to think and just be sheep like the fscking losers that govern us.

{/rant}

[openbsd-flipp]

Damn IOman, You snuck that comment in while I was ranting. Sorry if my post continues the drama.

[llbbl]

ehehe . ranting is fun :)

[llbbl]

I saw a preview of this movie on david letterman of all places. OMFG it looks good. I cna't believe I didn't see a preview of it before then.

[Sunny]

Yeah, I am with Ioman--I'm gonna drop this here. It's clear I'm not making any headway at this point. And TG, for the record, I was NOT suggesting that the main character be transformed into a woman--that would be ridiculous in the context of that comic book.

The film strikes me as an oddity because for all it's apparent modernity, the theme is completely old-fashioned--like a John Wayne western. Aside from the unusual visual aspect of the film, Sin City has a lot of elements of a film noir from the '40s--it's another movie where the men have all the power and the women serve as objects of desire that the good men try to protect and the evil men abuse.

[Sunny]

Oh, and P.S.: there IS something between a half-naked Jessica Alba and and a "300 lb woman in sweatpants from Wall Mart." All the women I mentioned as strong female characters in my earlier post--Trinity, Sam/Charlie Baltimore from "Long Kiss Goodnight", the beautiful women of "Crouching Tiger", hey-I'll throw Uma Thurman, Viveca Fox and Lucy Liu from "Kill Bill" in there, too--all of them are strong, intelligent female characters who look damn good while kicking ass, thank you very much! :)

(OK--rant's over.)

[llbbl]

so what exactly is your point?

Alba looks too good or doesn't kick enough ass? You want her to dress more conservatively or be more involved in the action?

[k2]

Sunny, i'm guessing you're not fimiliar with sin city (comic, cartoon or movie), all the women in sin city are strong and they're in shape. the movie's main characters are men; and the movie revolves around their interaction with women.

side note, my girl watched it with me lastnight and she loved it. marv's the man! especially his final scene; mickey rouke was perfect as marv.

[Sunny]

TG, I can't even begin to address this issue...you're completely clueless. I'm guessing you don't know the first thing about the feminist movement, or have any idea of what it feels like to be powerless in society.

k2--you're right, i am not familiar with the comic, but I get the idea that it revolves around men. And that is reason #1 why I wouldn't be interested--I've seen and heard stories from a male perspective my whole life, so now I embrace things that come from a broader, more inclusive perspective.

[znaps]

so now I embrace things that come from a broader, more inclusive perspective.

But us men are happy to watch movies where all the main characters are women. Plenty of guys here have watched Charlie's Angels I would think. Why won't you do the same?

[Ioman]

This thread is a dead horse that is being beaten. Guys loosen up and stop picking on Sunny. She is entitled to her opinion. One more flame and this thread is locked :X

[llbbl]

bah we aren't flaming. we just want to debate. There hasn't been any personal attacks.

[llbbl]

TG, I can't even begin to address this issue...you're completely clueless. I'm guessing you don't know the first thing about the feminist movement, or have any idea of what it feels like to be powerless in society.

well except for her calling me clueless, but that is ok. I forgive her ;)

Sunny if you don't want to discuss it fine. I do know about movies and the feminist movement to discuss this with you if you wanted.

I think there are plenty of women in power here in the US. We have the highest percentage (33%) of women in government in the world.

http://www.un.org/womenwatch/daw/public/percent.htm

I think the workforce distribution is getting better.

72% The percentage of women age 16 and over in 2000 who worked in one of four occupational groups: administrative support, including clerical (24 percent); professional specialty (18 percent); service workers, except private household (16 percent); and executive, administrative and managerial (14 percent).

http://usgovinfo.about.com/library/weekly/aa031601a.htm

There are a lot of women owned businesses today. 5,417,034 to be exact.

http://www.census.gov/epcd/mwb97/us/us.html

So don't tell me women are powerless in this society because the US is doing a very good job at empowering its women.

Anyways back to the movie right. That is what this thread is about.

I guess what I was trying to say before is that this isn't one of those movies that has some hidden philosophical meaning like Matrix, it is meant to be entertainement, something to get you to take your mind off all the problems of the world and if you go into the movie with any preconcieved notions about feminism or the liberation of tibet or that the Iraq war is worth it, than you probably aren't going to enjoy the movie very much.

[Ioman]

No more debates. I can appreciate Sunny's opinion and intelligence and would love for her to contribute to other threads, but that will be highly unlikely if everything she posts turns into a "debate". We do not all have to agree with you Tecknogeek.

[Ioman]

This thread is closed because it was getting out of hand, and WAY off topic. Please no more posts Tecknogeek.

Thanks